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Were God's Promises To Israel Forever?
Prophecy Questions Blog ^ | February 1, 2024 | Charles Meek

Posted on 03/20/2024 5:44:02 PM PDT by grumpa

“And I will establish my covenant between you and Me, and you and your offspring after you, through their generations for an everlasting covenant. . . and I will give to you and your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession.” (Genesis 17:7-8; cf. Genesis 13:15; 48:4; Isaiah 60:21)

“The LORD will establish you as a people holy to himself, as He has sworn to you, IF you keep the commandments of the LORD your God and walk in his ways. . . But IF you will not obey. . . the LORD will send on you curses. . . until you are destroyed.” (Deuteronomy 28:9, 15, 20. See also Joshua 23:15-16; 1 Kings 9:6-9, and Zechariah 11:10)

Errors of biblical interpretation arise for several reasons, including:

1. Failure to reconcile all passages on the same topic, especially when they seem to be different. 2. Erroneous presuppositions from errors arising from one’s denominational echo chamber (“mass formation hypnosis”). 3. Confusing new covenant things with old covenant things.

The two passages above from Genesis and Deuteronomy appear to be contradictory. On the one hand, God’s promises to Israel are everlasting. On the other hand, they are contingent on obedience. How do we reconcile these? Here’s how:

“God’s promises to Israel were forever so long as they were obedient. If they fail the obedience test, the promises are null and void. There is a limit to God’s patience.”

Was Israel obedient? NO. Because of this disobedience, God took the blessings of the covenant away from the Jews as we see in such passages as this from the Parable of the Tenants (Matthew 21:33-45):

“Therefore, I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. . . When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that He was speaking about them.” (Matthew 21:43, 45)― leaving a remnant of faithful Jews to be saved along with believers in Christ―the new Israel of God (Romans 11).

The Old Testament declared that the land promises to Israel had been fulfilled (Joshua 21:43-45; 23:14-15). The New Testament declares that all God’s covenant promises were fulfilled in Jesus (Luke 1:54-55, 69-75; 2 Corinthians 1:20). Jesus was the ultimate offspring of Abraham (Matthew 1:1; Galatians 3:16). The new covenant began at the cross, being announced at the Last Supper when Jesus declared “This cup is the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you” (Luke 22:20). The New Covenant is eternal (Hebrews 13:20). There is no third covenant and no backpedaling to the first.

“In speaking of a new covenant, He makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13)

The old covenant was ready to VANISH AWAY. It was imminent. That is completely clear. You just cannot whitewash that without doing violence to the text! The ceremonial aspects of the old covenant (especially the sacrificial system) went away when the temple was destroyed in AD 70. Only the moral aspects of the Law remained, as the New Testament re-affirmed at least nine of the Ten Commandments as valid.

But, why did God take the blessings of the kingdom away from the Jews? ANSWER:

1. They were exceeding sinful (Matthew 12:38-39; 16:4; 23:13-38; Luke 9:41).

2. They broke the old covenant (Hebrews 8:8-9).

3. They persecuted and killed Jesus’ followers (Matthew 21:34-36; 22:5-6; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16; Revelation 18:20-24). Indeed, according to Jesus, the first century Jews would suffer the penalty for all the righteous blood ever shed (Matthew 23:35-36).

4. They refused to accept Jesus as Messiah (Matthew 23:37).

5. They participated with Rome in Jesus’ crucifixion (Matthew 21:37-39; 27:24-26; John 19:15.)

Is God finished with Israel? Yes, but only old-covenant Israel, not new-covenant Israel.

The truly everlasting covenant would be the New Covenant in Christ (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 37:26-27; Hebrews 13:20)―a kingdom that cannot be shaken (Hebrews 12:28).


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; covenant; falseeschatology; floodnet; forever; land; lookwhohatesjews; promises; repost; troll; zot
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For more about this, see my article about the everlasting Israel of God in the new covenant―and the fundamental change to God’s covenant community:

Israel of God

1 posted on 03/20/2024 5:44:02 PM PDT by grumpa
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To: grumpa
Has God utterly cast away his people, or replaced them, which He foreknew?

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

“His people” are abundantly identified as Israel in Scripture (Ps. 14:7; 29:11; 50:4). That the LORD had not utterly cast them all away, forever locked up in spiritual blindness, is first manifest in the fact that the apostle himself was Jewish by race.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

The fact that in times of past apostasy, the LORD preserved a remnant is further proof that He had not and will not utterly cast them all away. He did not destroy the nation and make a new one as He offered to do for Moses (Ex. 32:10), but preserved a seed, out of which the nation, as a distinct people, would be preserved.

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

In continuance of the doctrine laid down in Romans, that man is not justified on the basis of merit by works, nor can man find the Lord unless the He draws and grants him repentance and faith, the election of the remnant is declared to be entirely by God's Sovereign grace. “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” (Jn. 1:13, while the rest were judicially, Sovereignly blinded.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Their “table” – that which was a blessing from God – became a trap (Ps. 69:22) and a cause of departure from grace, as Israel fell into idolatry, resulting in Gods just judgment against them. So also the blessings graciously bestowed upon America through a faithful remnant of God, have become a trap for those who have entered into their men's labors, but choose to worship and serve “the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever” (Rm. 1:25).

Beginning in verse 7, we see that there is a distinct people called Israel, that is “Israel after the flesh,” and who are the prime subject (“them,” “their”, etc.), as opposed to the church, into which they shall be grafted back in again.

On one hand this Israel has the devil as their father (Jn. 8:44), just as we did in our unregenerate state, being “children of wrath” (Eph. 2:3), and have no claim to the spiritual blessings of Abraham which come by obedient, Abrahamic – type faith (Gal. 3:6-14). But on the other hand the LORD recognizes His covenant with Abraham as pertaining to the nation, and has and will preserve a distinct people Israel, which though now lost, in the fullness of time shall be turned to the Lord, as this chapter will make progressively clear.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

This 4th question of the chapter is part of the response to the 1st question. God has not utterly cast away the people in question (them, Israel after the flesh), but for a time, or dispensation, they are blinded, while those outside the Israel at subject enter in. And if this be the result of their fall, how much more blessed it is, and will be, when they turn to the Lord in faith?

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

As expressed in Romans 9:1-5ff, Paul “could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh.” The Israel there and here is identified as them which are my flesh, not a believing Jewish remnant.

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

What is intimated here (v. 15), and verse 25 will reveal, is that the apostle is not simply referring to a few Jewish souls coming to faith in Christ in Paul's time, nor a remnant of them coming to faith down through the ages, but a time when the LORD shall remove the blindness of Israel, when He shall remember His covenant with them, just as He collectively imposed it, (see vs.20-28).

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

The “them” is the branches that were of the “firstfruit,” the “root,” but were broken off while the Gentiles, a “wild olive tree,” were grafted in and enjoy the heritage of those (the Israelites), to whom was originally given the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen” (Rm. 9:4, 5).

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Seeing we have “moved into their house” so to speak, we are not be proud or arrogant, but contrariwise, realize that we are not independent from the source, from the root which we are grafted into, by faith, and that just as the natural branches were broken off through unbelief, so no Gentile can presume upon the grace of God, by falling into unbelief, forsaking the faith and fellowship (such as by yielding to “another gospel,” or by practicing immorality), and walking in disobedience to God's Word, thereby falling from grace, and making Christ of none effect (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 10:25 - 39).

And while Israel can be justly reproved, it also is to be loved, and prayed for as for as a long lost brother, and supported when right.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Conversely, it is assured that the natural branches can be grafted back into their own olive tree. Notice that there is no replacement of Israel as an distinct entity, though it truly consisted only of men of Abrahamic faith, rather Gentile believers in Y'shua are “blessed with faithful Abraham” (Gal. 3:9), and become partakers of “the fatness of the olive tree;”(Rm. 11:17), and suffer no racial inequalities (cf. Gal. 3:28). Bless the Lord!

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Here it is clearly stated that the distinct people called Israel were blinded until a future condition is met (just as Zacharias, because of unbelief, could not speak UNTIL John was born: Lk,.1:20) . Just as they, the natural branches, were broken off and the Gentiles grafted in, so when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in, the Lord shall come and “shall turn unGodliness from Jacob.” And so all Israel (what is left of it) shall believe and be saved.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This statement is confirmatory to the above, as it clearly states that the LORD yet has a covenant with THEM, the people Paul has kept before us all this time, the natural branches, the people upon whom blindness came, until...

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Here again it is confirmed that there is an Israel who are dealt with as a distinct people, and as such (along with others) persecuted the believers and thus were enemies of the gospel (and suffered for it: 1Thes. 2:14-16), yet this same Israel is beloved for the Father's sake – though individually, until they repent, they are lost

The warnings and promises in this chapter, both to Israel and Gentiles, deal with people groups (though applicable to individuals), and what shall happen in the the fullness of time. Just as the promise of a great turning of Gentiles to trust in Christ, “a:root of Jesse” (Is. 11:10; Mt. 12:21; Rm. 15:13) pertained to a future time while in the meantime individuals still needed salvation, so the promise here of Israel turning to the Lord is in the future. while in the meantime multitudes will die in their sins unless they turn to Christ their Messiah.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Inseparably linked to the above, it reveals that those to whom God gifted, “to whom pertaineth the adoption,and the glory, and the covenants..”, and were called out by God to be My people (Lv. 26:12), were not utterly cast away, nor replaced by the church, who is grafted into Israel, but that the Lord will yet “turn away ungodliness from Jacob”, in remembrance of His covenant. Though their hard hearts (as a whole) are blinded, “Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away” (2Cor. 3:16).

It should be clear to the honest truth – seeker that the “they” throughout this chapter who are yet enemies of the gospel are also (amazingly!) beloved for their Father's sake and will one day be turned from blindness to light, from darkness to sight, and see “the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ” (2Cor. 4:6), to the glory of the only wise God!

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Ps. 11:6:5 Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.

The Lord was entirely just in recompensing Israel with blindness in response to their hardness of heart (cf. Lk. 7:30; Mt. 21:43; Acts 13:46; 22:21; 26:17), and entirely gracious and merciful in opening the hearts of the Gentiles. But when the fullness of the latter be entered in, then those of the natural branch will once more obtain salvific mercy and be grated in again, to the glory of the just yet merciful and only wise God!

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: TO WHOM BE GLORY FOR EVER. Amen.

Home: www.peacebyjesus.net


Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

2 posted on 03/20/2024 5:46:57 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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To: grumpa

They are forever, contingent on Israel’s willingness to obey the Covenant, otherwise it impugns God’s trustworthiness.


3 posted on 03/20/2024 5:47:41 PM PDT by Jonty30 (I may not know as much american history and law as I like, but I know more than most liberals.)
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To: All

The promises were conditional. Israel, like all of mankind, falls short of the glory of God. The New Covenant is also conditional (like all of the others). He wants us to fully commit to Him.


4 posted on 03/20/2024 5:49:44 PM PDT by BipolarBob (If you bring up my past, you should know that Jesus dropped all of the charges.)
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To: Jonty30

Yes, God’s promises to Israel are forever - but the real question is, “who is Israel”? God treated Israel as “his wife”, protecting and providing for her. But she was unfaithful, and the “Nation” of Israel - and their temple - was utterly destroyed. However, a faithful ruminate remained and accepted Israel’s Messiah, and for 18 years this was the “church”, the bride of Christ. And all who accepted Jesus as Messiah - Jews at first and later Gentiles - were accepted into this new covenant.


5 posted on 03/20/2024 6:03:14 PM PDT by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer

“ruminate “ does not equal “remnant.”


6 posted on 03/20/2024 6:14:31 PM PDT by Fungi
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To: grumpa

Somehow I don’t think God’s promises come with a “use by” date.


7 posted on 03/20/2024 6:16:24 PM PDT by mass55th (“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ― John Wayne)
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To: BipolarBob

True, all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. No one can be perfect or work their way into Heaven. That’s why we need a Savior.
Would you agree that there are Hebrews who preceded Christ’s first coming that are with God? Just read Hebrews 11.
The new covenant is conditional but the only condition is belief in the atoning sacrifice of Christ for the forgiveness of sins and His imputed righteousness for salvation.


8 posted on 03/20/2024 6:24:02 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Civil disobedience by non-compliance; jury and state nullification.)
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To: grumpa

If there is a God then promises would logically be forever.

If God is an invention, then he/she/whatever would not keep a promise. Because if the God of invention is just a figment of our collective imagination then the God they invented is like us and he/she/whatever can’t figure out from day to day what to think...


9 posted on 03/20/2024 6:33:00 PM PDT by montanajoe ( )
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To: grumpygresh

“Come to Me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn for Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” — Matthew 11:28-30


10 posted on 03/20/2024 6:35:51 PM PDT by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
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To: Jonty30

The new covenant included us gentiles


11 posted on 03/20/2024 6:35:51 PM PDT by bk1000 (Banned from Breitbart)
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To: impactplayer

“Who is Israel?”

Is it even possible for someone to know for sure if they are descended from the original 12 tribes? Are there records?

Or is it the practice of the religion itself that matters to determine membership? If so, there are very few. And isn’t the Temple required?

And why does the question in this article even matter, given the New Covenant?


12 posted on 03/20/2024 6:42:59 PM PDT by ReaganGeneration2
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To: bk1000

Yes it did, but the old one is not cancelled, I think.
Just as the Noahic covenant was not cancelled by the Abrhamaic one.


13 posted on 03/20/2024 6:43:10 PM PDT by Jonty30 (I may not know as much american history and law as I like, but I know more than most liberals.)
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To: montanajoe

You say, If there is a God then promises would logically be forever.

Not necessarily. If He puts contingencies on it, then that has to be considered. Read my article again.


14 posted on 03/20/2024 6:43:26 PM PDT by grumpa
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To: grumpa

They were CONDITIONAL upon obedience.


15 posted on 03/20/2024 6:51:11 PM PDT by Philsworld (It's all short quips and funny memes, until you find that you've come up short in the judgment. )
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To: grumpa

You keep pimping this Meek guy’s blog.

You really need to find a legitimate source that has actually been educated.


16 posted on 03/20/2024 6:55:10 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: bk1000

The children of Israel have wandered away from the Lord even from the very get-go In Egypt despite all the miracles they witnessed. Even so, the Lord keeps his promises. The Lord said to Abraham, “Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies... (Genesis 22:17).

We see that happening this very day in Gaza. The Lord’s word is perfect. He patiently waits for His children to come back to Him.


17 posted on 03/20/2024 6:56:32 PM PDT by Combat_Liberalism
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Pimping?

Pretty hard to have an adult conversation with someone whose so insecure about his beliefs that the mind is closed and won’t seriously engage. Ridicule is not refutation.


18 posted on 03/20/2024 6:57:15 PM PDT by grumpa
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To: ReaganGeneration2

Funny, isn’t it? Non-Jews (like you?) identify and persecute and murder Jews regardless of if they “know for sure”.


19 posted on 03/20/2024 7:02:12 PM PDT by jjotto ( Blessed are You LORD, who crushes enemies and subdues the wicked.)
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To: grumpa

I didn’t attempt to refute anything.

I simply pointed out that you unknowingly continue to pimp this guy’s blog, which indicates you are not discerning about the Scriptures.

And since you do it regularly, I assume the rightly divided Word of Truth will not be received. Who has time for that?

I do wish you well.


20 posted on 03/20/2024 7:09:39 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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