Posted on 08/27/2023 6:35:21 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
Preterism is one of today’s popular views of the end times; its adherents among church staff continue to rapidly grow in number. Below is a list of its basic beliefs:
Nero was the Antichrist. There will be no future individual Antichrist. The Tribulation Period is already over. It occurred when the Roman army besieged Jerusalem in AD 66-70. Christ “returned” in the clouds in AD 70 to witness the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army. God replaced Old Testament Israel with the Church. Therefore, all the biblical promises to Israel belong to the Church. Armageddon already happened in AD 70. Satan is already bound in the abyss and cannot hinder the spread of the Gospel. Revelation 20 has already been fulfilled. We are already in the Millennium, but it is not literal. Some preterists equate the entire Church Age as the Millennium [as do other end time positions]. Some preterists believe in a bodily resurrection of the saints as described in 1 Corinthians 15:47-54 and Philippians 3:20-21, which necessitates, in their view, another return of the Savior. Many advocates of preterism don’t believe in a future bodily resurrection of the saints as described in these passages.
The popularity of a doctrine that believes Jesus fulfilled His Matthew 24:29-31 promise in AD 70 is just an initial cause for alarm. Below I describe other reasons why we must reject the teachings of preterism. It’s also because they . . .
Nullify What The Bible Says About Jesus’ Future Glory
In Matthew 24:29-31, Jesus described His glorious return at which time everyone on earth will mourn as they see “the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” We see this magnificent display of dazzling supremacy recounted in Revelation 19:11-20:6.
To assert that an obscure vision of chariots clashing in the sky, which only one person reportedly saw, fulfilled these prophecies of Jesus’ breathtakingly spectacular return to earth, as the preterists do, makes no sense whatsoever.
To say that that this happened in AD 70 has a chilling impact on the glory that Scripture ascribes to Jesus at His Second Coming
Preterism also attacks Jesus’ glory by negating His future inheritance of the nations. Listen to what the Father promises the Son in Psalm 2:8-9: “Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
It’s clear from the context that these are physical nations with real kings. The promise of Psalm 2 as well as that of Isaiah 9:6-7 relate to a time when Jesus will physically govern the nations. Denying Jesus’ thousand-year reign cancels His future glory associated with both His return and kingship.
I believe that the most serious error of the preterists is that they do great damage to the Name of Jesus by placing His return to earth in AD 70.
Pour Cold Water On Our ‘Blessed Hope’
It’s abundantly clear throughout the New Testament that God intended our future expectation to be solely upon Jesus and His appearing at which time believers will receive glorified bodies (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Corinthians 15:47-54), experience eternal victory over death (1 Corinthians 15:54-56; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10, 4:13-5:11), and be caught up to forever be with the Lord (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). This is the substance of our “blessed hope” (Titus 2:11-14).
As New Testament saints, we have a glorious expectation rooted in the sure promise of Jesus’ appearing. Don’t let anyone pour ice-cold water on your joyous hope of meeting Jesus in the air. This day is surely coming.
Contradict What Scripture Reveals About God’s Character
I retired seven years ago to begin a fulltime studying and writing career devoted mainly to defending Jesus’ thousand-year reign and our expectation of His appearing before the seven-year Tribulation. I have recently come to the conclusion that if someone were to ask me why I’m so convinced of these things, I would begin my response this way:
The future and glorious restoration of Israel seamlessly aligns with what Scripture reveals regarding God’s character. I also know Jesus, who perfectly mirrors the Father, and He will rescue His bride, the body of Christ, before His wrath encompasses the earth. It’s what I know from Scripture about the Lord that confirms my belief in these things.
Of course, the words of Scripture solidly back up these beliefs and I would quickly go there in defending our “blessed hope.”
As for the return of future glory to the nation of Israel, which preterists soundly deny, the Lord makes it clear that He must fulfill His covenants and promises because of His holiness. In Exodus 32:11-14, Moses bases His argument for God to preserve His people, after they worshipped the golden calf, upon His character and reputation. In Ezekiel 36:22-38, the Lord copies Moses’ argument from Exodus 32 stating that His holiness demands the restoration of Israel as detailed in this wonderful passage.
Teachings that place the fulfillment of most end-time biblical prophecies in the past also contradict what the Bible tells us about our God. Isaiah 46:8-11 tells us that He loves to declare “the end from the beginning.” The vast number of prophecies relating to our day stem both from His great love for us and His shear delight at revealing the future from ancient times.
The One who prophesied about His Son defeating Satan all the way back in the garden of Eden is definitely not Someone who would leave us with no signs of the end times or without a clue as to when Jesus might appear.
Rest Upon An Untenable View Of Church History
Preterists maintain that John authored the book of Revelation in about AD 65. If the apostle penned it after AD 70 then preterism can’t possibly be true since John would be writing about the future return of the Lord after it took place.
It’s impossible, however, to maintain such an early date for the origin of the book. Writers in the early centuries of the church place John’s banishment to the Isle of Patmos and the writing of Revelation late in the reign of the Emperor Domitian, who ruled over Rome from AD 81-96. Irenaeus, who grew up in the church at Smyrna and later became a prominent leader and writer, stated that John wrote Revelation near the end of Domitian’s rule.
Irenaeus’ mentor in the faith, Polycarp, was not only a disciple of the Apostle John, but also most likely the one who would’ve read the book to the church at Smyrna. Surely Irenaeus would’ve known the date of its writing.
A question that preterists can’t answer is this: “Why did all the prominent leaders of the church during its first three centuries regard the Second Coming as a future event? Influential church fathers such as Papias (70-163), Irenaeus (130-202), Justyn Martyr (100-165), and Tertullian (155-240) all wrote regarding the future certainty of Jesus’ return to earth as well as His thousand-year reign over the nations. Until the time of Augustine in the fifth century AD, the church believed in Jesus’ future one-thousand year reign with few exceptions.
The testimony of church history makes preterism untenable. Besides the almost unanimous witness to the later date for the writing of Revelation, everyone in the early centuries of the church regarded Jesus’ return as a future event. How is it possible that the entire church missed Jesus’ return if it had already happened?
The idea that Jesus returned to earth in AD 70 didn’t even exist anywhere in the church until the seventeenth century when a disgruntled Jesuit Catholic priest, Luis de Alcazar, began teaching the past fulfillment of biblical prophecy associated with Jesus’ Second Coming.
Hurt The Saints
Preterism deprives New Testament saints of the blessedness of their “blessed hope.” It does so by turning the New Testament expectation of glory into one of certain death. During the past decade, I’ve heard several pastors say that all believers will die before Jesus returns even though the Bible says otherwise in I Corinthians 15:47-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
Do you see how this not only blinds the eyes of believers, but also hurts them by shifting their attention away from Jesus’ appearing?
Preterists, as well as amillennialists, do considerable damage to the cause of Christ by ignoring myriad of signs pointing to Jesus’s soon arrival to take us home. They tell us that eschatological positions are “tertiary,” or of third-rate importance, and we must not talk about something so nonessential lest we upset someone.
Apart from what the Bible reveals about the end times and our hope, how do we deal with the massive number of deadly fires, the floods, and wholesale murder of multitudes, as well as innocents? How do we cope with such great wickedness apart from the Bible’s assurance that God is in control and that He will justly judge the world after He takes us up to glory?
It’s deeply troubling to anyone aware of the times in which we live. God’s Word relieves our fears in that it tells us the last days before the Tribulation would look like this and promises us that Jesus will appear to take us home before the start of the Day of the Lord’s wrath.
The end of the age wrap-up so prominent in both amillennialism and preterism beliefs keeps believers from hearing the biblically sound encouragement they so desperately need in today’s world. Such bland end-of-days scenario ignores the glories of Jesus’ Second Coming and His glorious rule over the nations. For us, it dampens our joyous expectation of His appearing as clearly annunciated in so many New Testament passages.
Biblical prophecy, as well as the book of Revelation, magnifies the person of Jesus from beginning to end. The teachings of preterism assign a far less glorious place to Jesus in the scheme of end time events. This is the key reason to reject it.
For New Testament saints drawn into this egregious error, it moves their hope away from Jesus’ appearing to the certainty of death leaving them to hope in things that will never calm their fears or enable them to cope with the terrors ahead should Jesus not come for His Church in the very near future.
” call themselves Christians”
Are we saying there are billions who call themselves Christians? .. or billions of Christians ..?
That’s just the quick question ...
I’ll have to review the texts you referenced and get back to you for more.
Thanks
“I had a pastor describe how Christ’s death and resurrection is to Satan how D-Day was to Hitler.
Hitler KNEW (heck, everybody knew) that the success of D-Day meant the defeat of Nazi Germany. Not that Hitler was just going to roll over and surrender, or that there still weren’t battles to be fought with lots of pain and suffering, but that the outcome of the war had been decided.”
Imagine how ticked off Satan must have been... because he knew that without Jesus’s sacrifice, none of us would have been saved from his wiles. Without Jesus’s sacrifice, Satan would have achieved his goal of gaining all our souls in his war against God.
Yes, the outcome of the war was decided, but the battles still rage on in our timeline.
None of us humans ever stood a chance against Satan on our own... from that fateful day in the garden up until Jesus was crucified. And I posit that none of us will be “safe” from Satan’s evil deeds or revenged until Jesus returns and kicks Satan to the curb, finally. Things are going to get a lot worse on planet earth until then especially for Christians via persecution. But we know what to expect and how to prepare for what’s coming.
Personally, I can’t wait until Jesus returns. What a glorious day to finally be redeemed. Look around at all of the increasing evil in the world. Our own government turned against us via the anti-Christ Marxists. Mass murder with bioweapons releases and man-made “wildfires”. Government playing God and tinkering with the weather to cause effects that they can then blame on their “climate change” agenda. Globalist anti-Christs stating openly their depopulation agenda goals, as if they know there’s no way to stop them. And thanks to the anti-Christ Marxists, we are right around the corner from WWIII, which will probably be a nuclear war. And let’s not even think about the next bioweapon they’ll release to gain total control. I’m sure Satan cackles with glee at how “well” things are going for his side...
except for that predetermined outcome factor.
Man you do like to jump right into the deep end of the pool ..
Revelation 12 seems to be one of the more “alagorial”chapters.
But I think we can boil it down to the verse you reference ..
The dragon is going to make war with the remnant.
I see .. Revelation 13:7-8-9
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If any man have an ear, let him hear.
.... I see everyone worshiping the beast .. except the ones whose names are written in the Lambs Book.
then I see... Revelation 13:
// as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
then I see ..
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark,
..... it looks like the ones whose name are in the book wont be getting the beasts mark.
and I think Matthew 24:24 indicates Gods people won’t be deceived ...
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
“if it were possible” ... suggest to me ...it’s not.
This brings us to Revelation 14:9-12
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God
( remember ..those whose names are in the Book won’t worship him)
..... and then you ref .... the smoke for those that worship the beast.
and the patience of the saints.
Seems to me we are being told of a time to come when the devil will try to kill Gods children because they wont go along with the program .. times will get bad ..can’t buy or sell ... but be patient .. hang tight the King is coming.
Which gets me back ... pretty much to Mark 13:5-27
.... but does any of this address the first question?
What is a Christian?
Or in this case .... how does your name get in the Lambs Book?
And those people are........
Revelation 14:9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
“whose names are written in the Lambs Book.”
you saw ...Revelation 14
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
yes good ... I see it too
I see .. 1 Timothy
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
.... 1 John 3
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
....Matthew 22
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
So we see ...
his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ
Our names will be in the Lambs Book
I still don’t see billions of Christians...?
I think a lot of folks who may call them self Christian will take the mark.
People who count on their works or good deeds .. But Galations 2
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
and not by the works of the law:
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gird your loins ...put on the whole armor .... it’s about to get real
——>I still don’t see billions of Christians...?
I think a lot of folks who may call them self Christian will take the mark.
Currently on this earth are 2.5 billion people who identify as “Christian”. Most of them will take the mark. As I’ve already stated, those who won’t take the mark (worship the Beast), keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. That is clearly what the bible states.
So, as a Christian, it would behoove me to know who the Beast/Antichrist power is, it’s mark, and the seal of God. Because, at the end of the world, just before the 2nd coming of Christ, everyone is going to have to make the choice of the mark of the beast or the seal of God. Satan will make it nearly impossible to distinguish truth from lie, with false teachers/doctrine everywhere. People will follow them (as they already are) like rats to the Pied Piper. There is no coming back after one receives the MOTB.
“There is no coming back after one receives the MOTB.”
WE agree. To take the mark is finale. No return.
I see .. Revelation 14
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
I see.. Revelation 13
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
I see .. 2 Thessalonians
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
.... And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
So we see the man of sin revealed .. then a great delusion sent on the earth .... and the mark introduced. The Saints will not believe the lie or take the mark.
——>The Saints will not believe the lie or take the mark.
WHY?????
BECAUSE.....
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
COMMANDMENT KEEPING CHRISTIANS. They keep God’s law, 10 commandments, etc...
So, what does the MOTB have to do with, according to Revelation 14???
Maybe those who do not take a mark get spewed out like Jonah.
——>WE agree. To take the mark is finale. No return.
You say “take” the mark. Actually, the bible says “receive”. It’s probably an important distinction. Later, I’ll let you know what I think about that.
If you don’t have the seal of God, you have the Mark of the Beast. It’s one or the other.
If you don’t have the Mark of the Beast, you have the seal of God. It’s one or the other.
I do not believe it really is one or the other though, that is most likely where the pukey part comes in.
“the bible says “receive””
I see that.
my bad ..... take vs receive
words have meaning
“They keep God’s law, 10 commandments,”
I don’t see that ....
Show me
——>“They keep God’s law, 10 commandments,”
I don’t see that ....
Show me
One receives the MOTB because they WORSHIP the beast. The issue is over WORSHIP.
Revelation 14 quotes from the 4th commandment:
7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
The 4th commandment specifically addresses WHY we worship God....because He is our Creator.
Verse 12 tells us that those who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS and have the faith of Jesus, will not receive the MOTB (saints)
The MOTB is over the 4th commandment/worship, the 7th-day-Sabbath.
So, WHO IS THE BEAST/ANTICHRIST power, and what is their mark? Literally every single Protestant Reformer identified it as the Papacy. That comes directly from Prophecy. No guessing needed. And what do they say is their mark of authority?
“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is
proof of that fact.” — Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything, in matters spiritual, ecclesiastical and religious without her. This act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
Extract from a letter written by the Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons (November 11, 1895)
I have many quotes from the Catholic Church stating such.
Correct. It’s one or the other. At the end of the world, judgment for the living is decided on this single issue. It is about Worshiping God as your Creator, and His AUTHORITY, over that of the Beast. True commandment keepers will go to their graves before receiving the mark.
Why we are to worship God...Creator and authority (and the 4th commandment).
Revelation 4:
10The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and WORSHIPED him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: FOR THOU HAST CREATED ALL THINGS, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Revelation 5:
11And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12Saying with a loud voice, WORTHY is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13And every creature which is in HEAVEN, and on the EARTH, and UNDER THE EARTH, and such as are IN THE SEA, AND ALL THAT ARE IN THEM, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Revelation 10:
5And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN, AND THE THINGS THAT THEREIN ARE, AND THE EARTH, AND THE THINGS THAT THEREIN ARE, AND THE SEA, AND THE THINGS WHICH ARE THEREIN, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 14:7And he said in a loud voice, Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come. WORSHIP HIM WHO MADE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA AND THE SPRINGS OF WATERS.
Nehemiah 9:6Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Isaiah 37:16 “O Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, who is enthroned above the cherubim, You are the God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.
Psalms 148: 1Hallelujah! Praise the LORD from the heavens; praise Him in the highest places. 2Praise Him, all His angels; praise Him, all His heavenly hosts. 3Praise Him, O sun and moon; praise Him, all you shining stars. 4Praise Him, O highest heavens, and you waters above the skies. 5Let them praise the name of the LORD, for He gave the command and they were created.
(Sorry, meant to post to you both at #98)
“COMMANDMENTS and have the faith of Jesus,”
please review ....
https://freerepublic.com/focus/religion/4178133/posts?page=85#85
Show me ... not from the Catholic Record of London
I see ... 2 Timothy 3
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.