Posted on 07/02/2023 6:48:37 AM PDT by nralife
“And if Protestants request intercessionary prayer from mortals, why not also request it from the Mother of God?”
Because “she’s dead Jim”
And we ain’t supposed to talk to the dead.
That’s why
...that is all
I disagree. I believe in the Greek for Revelation 5:8 there's no "of" like there is in the English version: "which are the prayers of the saints". Therefore, an exegetical reading of the text doesn't assume it's about praying TO the saints. It could very well be talking about prayers BY the saints, probably still living.
And who are the saints? Tip: that's not decided by Papa Frank or his predecessors. Still don't know? Answer: in 1st Corinthians 1:2 Paul addresses the people in the church in Corinth as the "hagios", which is Greek for saints. I guess it's possible Paul was referring to Dionysius, whom the Catholics canonized as a saint. But "hagios" in the plural, then who else if "hagios" means saints-as-in-only-catholic-canonized? Obviously the saints are the average Joe Christians. So back to Revelation 5:8. Are we to pray to the average Joe believers who have died? If I die before you will you pray to me? Of course not! Thus Revelation 5:8's saintly prayers can't be about prayers TO believers, they're prayers BY believers.
To me that's fascinating! I'm a sinner, you're a sinner. We're all sinners. Yet God hears our prayers like it's sweet aroma He inhales as part of our worship to Him!
Do you know what the Hail Mary says? What parts are direct from Scripture?
I think you said it best when you said that you don’t believe.
Should you find that your understanding of Scripture should ever conflict with common sense, then your understanding of Scripture is simply wrong.
Immaculate Conception
In 1532, Luther said: ‘God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, for she has conceived and borne the Lord Jesus.
The founder of your church and the Protestant Rebellion said this. Will you denounce him?
—> Should you find that your understanding of Scripture should ever conflict with common sense, then your understanding of Scripture is simply wrong.
“Yes, Alex, I’d like ‘How to say you have no scriptural basis, without coming right out and saying it, for $300.”
I imagine it's from Luke 1:26, where the angel Gabriel greeted Mary with "chairo", which is greetings. Not "hail" like we think of hailing Hitler after WW2. It'd be analogous to saying "howdy".
Is there more in scripture about talking to Mary in our prayers, than just an angel giving her a message and beginning it with "greetings"? Don't get me wrong. That was truly a big event and Mary is one of our Bible heroes. But that's a far cry from saying we should pray to her.
—> The founder of your church and the Protestant Rebellion said this. Will you denounce him?
Perhaps you believe Christians blindly follow leaders like Romans?
Nor do I know a single person that “follows Saint Luther.”
Recall Luther was trained as a priest. Some things are hard to break.
I used Scripture to back up my beliefs. And when there are "gaps" (i.e. in the Greek there's no preposition like "of" or "to" tell us how the saints are related to prayers), I looked elsewhere in Scripture for the answers. With particular focus on New Testament Scripture.
Can you find a flaw in my logic? Using Scripture?
But death is not the end. Some of the dead are alive in Heaven.
Are you saying you don’t pray to Jesus? Or to the Holy Spirit? You pray ONLY to the Father?
What does God the Father say on the matter?
What does the Holy Spirit say on the matter.
They are one in essence. I am more comfortable with the Father. But they are all one.
The question is why you might be more comfortable with one over the other. Many like Jesus, especially baby Jesus, he is “non threatening” and needs our help we think.
The Holy Spirit points to Jesus, Jesus points to the Father.
If the Holy Spirit isn’t pointing to Jesus/Word, it is NOT the Holy Spirit. If Jesus/Word isn’t pointing to the Father, it is not Jesus talking.
A question for you. What exactly is the New Covenent? God tells us clearly in the OT and repeats it is the NT. Look it up.
No
Matthew 6:7
In praying, don’t use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their much speaking. (WEB)
This is another conflict from the Catholic tradition and the scripture. Given the choice of man’s teaching (Catholic tradition) and scripture, specifically the sermon on the Mount as taught by Jesus..... I will follow Jesus’s teachings.
That's an irrelevant tangent, based on your apparent assumption that Catholics worship Mary or anyone other than the Trinity.
Prayer to Mary, the saints, our guardian angels, is premised on the validity of intercessionary prayer. It stands or falls on that basis.
In the Greek you can determine these things from the text.
And if Protestants request intercessionary prayer from mortals, why not also request it from the Mother of God?
Why not?
If your earthly father was alive today, would you talk to him though others? you would do that only if you didn’t have a good relationship with your earthly father.
God the Father invites you into a deep personal relationship with Him (the New Covenant). FULL STOP.
Remove the word “vain” from that verse and you might have a point. However, the word is there and has meaning.
This issue is addressed in the fairly short video I posted, which not many people wish to watch or comment on. It’s just on with the talking points without seeking to understand a different point of view. :(
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