The American Revolution: Was it an Act of Biblical Rebellion? Was it a Violation of the Scriptural Command to Submit to Government Authorities?

Wall Builders ^

[Elsie]

... then you are sinning and going to hell.

If sinning sends us to hell; then we are ALL doomed.

It's UNBELIEF that will do it.

I'm ducking outta here!

[Elsie]

Obey the speed limit,...

[Elsie]

[daniel1212]

Here’s the catechism. Based on scripture, whatever FR catholic haters like to say Obey the law. If a civil law violates God’s law, then we must disobey it. “The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel,” says the Catechism (#2242).Nov

That this validates the American revolution is another matter of interpretation. Here’s the judgment of one (among others) from https://catholicexchange.com/121409 versus what FR catholic promoters like to say:

As the power to legitimately rule a people derives from the consent of the people, so the thinking goes, then it is perfectly legitimate for these same people to deny consent when the government deprives people of their rights...This pattern of argument must be rejected by the faithful Catholic.

In his encyclical Diuturnum , Pope Leo XIII writes plainly:... But from these, Catholics dissent, who affirm that the right to rule is from God, as from a natural and necessary principle...”

Consequently, Pope Leo argues, the ruler,

“will by that very reason immediately acquire a dignity greater than human […] Whence it will behoove citizens to submit themselves and to be obedient to rulers, as to God..."

The entire encyclical is worth reading in full, but these selections should put to a definitive end any idea among Catholics that a repeat of our revolutionary war may be justified. This becomes even clearer when we take seriously the fact that our initial Revolutionary War was illegitimate and cooperation with it immoral

And of-course, TradCaths oppose the Reformation, and are fond of medieval Catholicism, which condemns such beliefs as that, "liberty of conscience and liberty of worship are the inalienable rights of every citizen." (Pope Gregory XVI, “Mirari Vos,” August 15,1832)

and

"that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship.” (Section X, Errors Having Reference to Modern Liberalism, #78. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM)

and that

"it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion be the only religion of the State,"
and

"That it is against the will of the Spirit to burn heretics at the stake is condemned as false." (Pope Leo X, “Exsurge Domino,” 1520)

but can

extort from all heretics by torture a confession of their own guilt and a betrayal of all their accomplices. (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp)

Yet it was also once commanded,

• We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication. — Pope Alexander IV (1254-1261) in “Sextus Decretalium”, Lib. V, c. ii: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-51631.html

• Quinisext Ecumenical Council, Canon 64: That a layman must not publicly make a speech or teach, thus investing himself with the dignity of a teacher, but, instead, must submit to the ordinance handed down by the Lord, and to open his ear wide to them who have received the grace of teaching ability, and to be taught by them the divine facts thoroughly.

[daniel1212]

1 Corinthians 7:12 I (not the Lord) say to the rest of you: If a brother has a wife who is an unbeliever and she is willing to live with him, he must not abandon her.

Which simply differentiates btwn what the Lord himself directly said, "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: (1 Corinthians 7:10; cf. Jer 3:20; Mal 2:14-16; Mt 5:32; 19:6-9; Mr 10:11,12; Lu 16:18)

and his own judgement as also in, Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. (1 Corinthians 7:25)

Yet which also is another case of the norm in which, unlike prophets, (1 Peter 1:10-12; 2 Peter 1:20) writers of Scripture did not necessarily know that they were writings as wholly inspired of God, though it became manifest that they were. But Paul does go on to state: "But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God." (1 Corinthians 7:40)

I do however, speculate that Paul was unknowingly preparing the people for the dramatic world-changing distress of 70AD (which preterists actually imagine was the 2nd coming of Christ).

[trebb]

Yeah - and Jesus never questioned the Pharisees or turned over money-changers’ tables...

[stanne]

“obedient to rulers, as to God...”

I don’t know about what Pope Leo was deriving his reasoning. In the US we don’t have rulers. We are a government of the people by the people

If you want to think tge revolutionary war was wrong go ahead.

[darkangel82]

The’Divine Right of Kings’ never existed and this thread is trash

[avenir]

I basically agree with your defense of our founding, but your view of red letters vs. Paul misses that the risen Lord Jesus Christ specifically called him as “a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel” (Acts 9:15).

Jesus called Paul and thus gave him authority to teach. That’s why you have 13 letters from him in your NT. Those are Jesus speaking to YOU. That’s how he speaks, through chosen instruments.

Most of the “red letters” are Him speaking to Israel during His earthly ministry where he said “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)

[avenir]

Good post!

[TalBlack]

Steal an election and you’re the duly constituted authority?

And you were put there by God?

I don’t think so.

[ShadowAce]

1 Cor 7:25-27:

Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy.

I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is:

Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife.

Not all Scripture are words directly from the Lord. Some are opinions, as evidenced by the above passage.

Don't get me wrong--I'm not denigrating Scripture. However, Paul has inserted some of his own opinions into his teaching.

[mewzilla]

Don’t forget Moses. :-)

[SeekAndFind]

RE: Paul has inserted some of his own opinions into his teaching.

So, how does one differentiate between a personal apostolic opinion and an inspired teaching from the Holy Spirit other than the apostle himself explicitly telling us that it is his own opinion ( like the verse you just cited )?

[ShadowAce]

Read it in context. Pray about it. Always seek the Lord's guidance when making decisions. The Bible is a guide. It is His words to His creation, thus it should not be difficult to understand (except for maybe prophecy that has not yet happened).

It's NOT a step-by-step guide for what to do in every situation.

[Arlis]

A few decades ago, I also held McArthur’s view.

But now in my late 70’s, I concur with this great article and highly recommend it. Very scholarly and spiritual in its accuracy.

I commend it highly.

[Jan_Sobieski]

Ping

[Bonemaker]

“... the tyranny of Britain”

That’s a knee slapper compared to the tyranny of what the Union government monster has morphed into.

[left that other site]

When the Pandemic Lockdown hit, John MacArthur was in defience of the governing authories (Romans 13) because he kept his church open.

I admired him for that. I thought it was a very courageous stand to take.

His documented statement about the American Revolution is profoundly disturbing, especially in light of his actions during the Pandemic.

It’s a shame, because he is usually a good Bible teacher. Oh Well.

[delchiante]

Quote
So the United States was actually born out of a violation of New Testament principles, and any blessings God has bestowed on America have come in spite of that disobedience by the Founding Fathers..
...

So America beginning with 13 Colonies, like Christ and His 12 Disciples..
And growing two 50 states, as the New Covenant Church grew at 50..

Is counter to the New Testament?

Amazingly blind.

Blind leader, leading the blind, is walking out biblical New Testament principles..