Posted on 11/25/2022 9:03:03 AM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
The world is entering a time unlike any we have ever seen. No, we are not just entering it, we are neck-deep in it. I have been watching, waiting, analyzing, and digging into prophetic studies for decades.
But not everyone embraces this often weighty topic with joy; in fact, more and more, I get a reaction resembling fear and even panic. The ‘fear factor’ as it relates to prophecy is a very real condition, and I don’t want to make light of it because I don’t take it lightly. Prophetic passages can be very sobering in that human suffering will be ramped up considerably.
But I do want to offer some gentle suggestions to those who struggle with a very real sense of foreboding at the thought that ‘the end is near,’ with its accompanying birth pangs and global tragedies as outlined in the Scriptures.
Over time, I have learned that there are only two responses that stir in the heart of a believer when they hear that time is short, and that the human race is headed for certain “unpleasant” events on our way to redemption and the consummation of all things.
(Excerpt) Read more at harbingersdaily.com ...
——>As a former pretribber...
What was the turning point that made you realize the PTR viewpoint was in error? And, did you initially come across as rabid as these others in your defense of the PTR? It’s hard for me to imagine the likes of these other posters changing their minds and switching sides.
After my conversion, I began to have a great interest in prophecy. Every Bible book store I went to (this was before the internet), all they had was pretrib books. I bought and read every book i could get my hands on. To make a long story short, instead of the Bible indoctrinating me, I became indoctrinated by those books.
But a few post-trib preachers crossed my path, they said enough to make me want to get to the bottom of this. So I embarked on a year-long quest, studying every day, just me and the Bible, for the truth. It was hard, as I had to unlearn all that the books had taught me.
That’s my story in a nutshell. People that have had only the Bible before them, without all these pretrib books before them, see it just as Jesus set forth in Matt. 24, just one 2nd coming, when he gathers his elect, after the tribulation. The other parts of the New Testament on prophecy, simply follow what Jesus had set forth...such as the Thessalonian letters, and Revelation.
I knew what the pretrib books said, but I was convinced Jesus knew more about prophecy than all of them put together. I chose Jesus instead of them. The books are wrong, Jesus is right.
Now study Matthew 23-25. Jesus was speaking to Jerws not the Church. That section of passages ARE related to the Tribulation, because it is the time of Jacob’s Trouble(s). The jews are tod to watch. The Church is taught to wait ... for What Jesus taught in John 14.
——>Jesus was speaking to Jews, not the Church.
Actually, Jesus was talking to the “multitudes”, and then to his disciples later on.
Galatians 3:
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
Yes. The testimony of Jesse is the Spirit of Prophecy.
What is RWC?
No, cultuist twister, when Jesus spoke to His Disciples in Matthew 24 He had not yet introduced the concept of the body of believers in His death, burial, and resurrection, which Paul addresses in the Letter tot he Galatians.
Roman War Criminal, who posted the thread. I have no idea what the screen name, “Roman War Criminal,” is supposed to mean.
People will always fail in their attempts to understand Scripture without: 1) Guidance by the Light of the Holy Spirit; and 2) knowing that God has not forsaken Israel and given to the Church what are His promises to Israel. With replacement theology, it all gets bundled together and it will necessarily contradict.
It makes a crazed madness of Scripture without both.
And you are correct, MHG: Jesus was addressing Israel. The Body of Christ was nowhere in thought, as it had not even been revealed to the Apostle Paul at the time mentioned. I don’t know what others see when Jesus said He came not but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. How they make that say something else is beyond my reasoning.
“... which Paul addresses in the Letter tot he Galatians.”
Yep. There we be. In Paul’s epistles.
That’s me bro
I’m going to repeat myself for the last time to you.
You are nobody to Judge anybody else based on Eschatology.
You are nobody to mischaracterize Scripture to fit your cherry picked world view.
You Sasportas - are nobody to judge Brethren. Pound sand on that.
What I find hateful from you Pretrib Haters is that that are all massively angry folks who have not studied the Scriptures enough nor do you allow the Holy Spirit to explain what you have read.
I personally know a few former pretribbers who were massively led down by somebody who probably made all sorts of predictions (WHICH I NEVER DO) and when those never came to pass they lost their interest, enthusiasm, and hope.
Whatever your story is (I personally don’t care) is your business. It’s not Scriptural Study, I can promise you that because you’ve missed or misinterpreted dozens of verses that explains it to you.
Your accusations of us being “superficial” and “shallow” and “being on stony ground” are laughable to the extreme.
We have a CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS to look forward to.
2 Timothy 4:8
We have a BLESSED HOPE
Titus 2:13
We will inherit GLORY
Romans 8:18
He Promised He Would Get Us
Romans 14:3
Flight 777 is coming
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
In the Twinkling of an Eye
1 Corinthians 15:52
And if you still insist on being a martyr for Christ, prove it by going to North Korea, China, Pakistan or Iran and preach on a street corner. I can promise you that should you do that, you’ll be martyred for Him - your dream come true.
Furthermore, if you’re not willing to do that now, what makes you think you’ll be able to do it in the Tribulation?
My guess is you won’t be able to.
Your stance is weak.
I grow tired of playing stupid childish games with you and others here who blatantly ignore Scripture and God’s Promises.
Grow up man!
——>Furthermore, if you’re not willing to do that now, what makes you think you’ll be able to do it in the Tribulation?
——>My guess is you won’t be able to...
Millions upon millions of Protestants did just that when they were tortured, and then murdered by the Catholic church. They were loyal to the end. By the way, not one of them believed in a secret rapture before the second coming of Christ. Your group (PTR believers) believe in the Catholic lie of Futurism.
You SDA cultists just make things up to support satan’s lies. Are you now claiming to know the mind of EVERY Christian Martyr? what a empty balloon you prove yourself to be. What a tool of satan you enjoy being. The SDA fool says
‘No one ever believed the pre-tribulation departure of the Christians’ (Body of Believers), as if their false prophetess, E.G. White assured them of that lie. Bugs Bunny named you well, whatta Maroon.
SDA, a known cult invented in the 19th century wasn’t around back then - so why are you even commenting?
You opinion holds no water.
Name one SDA martyr ever murdered for “faith”.
SDA’s are Protestants. Or, weren’t you aware of that? LOL.
——>Are you now claiming to know the mind of EVERY Christian Martyr?
All you would ever have to do is read a book. The well-documented cases of Protestants going to their graves and holding true to Christ, are legendary. Denying it ever happened will do you no good. People who do sound foolish.
——>Name one SDA martyr ever murdered for “faith”.
Not sure what that has to do with anything. Anyone who loves Christ with all their heart should be ready to die for Him if it ever came to that.
“Anyone who loves Christ with all their heart should be ready to die for Him if it ever came to that.”
We’re getting somewhere Phil - 100% agree.
——>The SDA fool says
‘No one ever believed the pre-tribulation departure of the Christians’ (Body of Believers)
Francisco Ribera (Jesuit)
Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (Jesuit)
Michael Walpole (Jesuit)
Manuel De Lacunza (Jesuit)
These 4 Jesuits tried to convince the Protestant Reformers of a pre-tribulation departure of the “body of believers” as you say (commissioned by the Catholic Church after the Council of Trent). They concocted a ruse to throw people off their scent, that the Catholic church was the antichrist power, WHICH EVERY SINGLE REFORMER BELIEVED...well documented, etc.... 100% REJECTED. Not one Protestant, up until Edward Irving, ever believed it. It was all but forgotten until Edward Irving found a copy of De Lacunza’s book in a library (Oxford?) and translated it from Spanish into English. Guess who was a member of Irving’s church? Yes indeed, it was none other than Margaret Macdonald, THE UTTERER.
Someone else was in Irving’s church that fateful day, along with Margaret Macdonald. That person was Samuel Prideaux Tregelles. He wrote about that encounter that he personally witnessed. I’ve previously documented it in multiple posts. Here it is again.
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a SECRET RAPTURE of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin. p. 26.”
The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it Taught in Scripture? And Why? S. P. Tregelles. March 17, 1864.
And more...
“But there is a very different theory of the coming of the Lord as the hope of His Church, which many teach, and which many more receive, as though it were unquestioned truth.”
“It is said that there shall be a secret coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; that at this secret coming His believing people who are in their graves shall be raised, and the living changed, and that a secret rapture of the Church shall then take place; that this secret coming and secret rapture are our hope, and not the manifested appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven.”
“It is said that after this secret removal of the Church, the full manifestation of human evil, for some years at least, will take place, during which time shall be the display of the power of Antichrist,—the persecutions foretold in the Revelation, the extreme trials of Israel, the unequaled tribulation,—and that the end of this will be the manifestation of Christ visibly coming with His Church in the cloud of glory.”
“This is the doctrine of the secret coming of Christ, which many now preach as if it were the acknowledged truth of God, instead of its being (as is really the case) that which at every point would require proof from Scripture.”
“But not only is this doctrine of the coming of Christ not taught in the Word of God, but if, in what has been previously said, there is any point of truth, then this whole system stands in distinct contradiction of what the Scripture reveals.”
There is a long list of protestants who facilitated this false doctrine among Protestants. The most notable was John Nelson Darby. He tweaked it to what it is today. (even further tweaked by the likes of Hal Lindsey and the multitudes flocking to be on Prophecy Watchers, to sell their wares, etc...)
Started by Jesuits (of the Antichrist power), then spread throughout the Protestant world by gullible suckers.
The Reformers ALL believed in one, and only one, second coming of Jesus Christ. No secret event beforehand. They were Historicists. Believers of the false PTR doctrine are Futurists. Your buddy, Tommy Ice, even labels them as such.
Where does that term come from? It comes from the Jesuits of the Catholic church.
Your FALSE PTR doctrine HOLDS NO WATER.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.