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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
Neither the writer of this epistle, nor his coworkers, nor any Jewish/Hebrew (relationship to ancestors) born-anew spirit-indwelt Christian (relationship to the Heavenly Father of Jesus Messiah and Savior) come under the 10:26-30 pericope. But incidental to the text, neither does any child of the Father to whom the righteousness of His Only Begotten Son is imputed. The have let themselves fall into God’s hands, be judged on the Cross, and through complete trust in Jesus’ purchase of ALL their sins with the Blood that He offered to propitiate the righteous demands of the Most Holy God’s Law and contingent Wrath, from which He then satisfied was able to unilaterally and graciously offered to be their merciful Father, giving them Eternal Life and Joy.
“Warm and fuzzy... think again.” I like that paraphrase of Lewis
Neither the writer of this epistle, nor his coworkers, nor any Jewish/Hebrew (relationship to ancestors) born-anew spirit-indwelt Christian (relationship to the Heavenly Father of Jesus Messiah and Savior) come under the 10:26-30 pericope.
The truth is that they do. We all do. Anyone who claims grace, does. Romans 6 and Hebrews 10 agree completely.
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(Hebrews 10)
You are clearly wrong. Let the following words ring in your ears...
...and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace. ✔
OSAS is a lie.
You are completely bereft of any gift of how to apply exegesis to a passage. Go ahead and believe your own opinion. Genuine experienced scholars contradict you.
Ask any Roman Catholic if they are going to heaven when they die. They will tell you they hope so, and that any certainty would be prideful and presumptuous.
They speak this way because they do not believe in the efficacy of the precious blood of Jesus. They have been taught that heaven is bought not only by Jesus and (ESPECIALLY) Mary, but by a whole list of other check marks — belonging to the Roman Catholic Church, church attendance, infant baptism, “being good,” and a host of other qualifiers.
A born again blood bought believer does not say, “I hope I’m good enough to get into heaven.” But that’s what a Roman Catholic will tell you.
Yep, you got it right. If that org can manipulate you with the insecurity it instils, you aren’t.
What 'version' is you reading from?
GOD told Eve NOTHING because she wasn't CREATED yet, and He sure didn't say anything about TOUCHING to Adam!
Genesis 2:15-18 kjv
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
LOL you are correct sir. 👍
You ARE??
Merely mouthing the words, "I repent" without even knowing what it is you are repenting from?
Ephesians 4:26 kjv
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
I think I can speak for my FRiend in Tennessee that we ARE 'in peace with each other' for 99.99% of the time.
We are BROTHERS - and brothers tend to aggravate each other - just because... we ARE brothers!
At least we are NOT fighting the old PC/Mac battle, or the Ford vs Chevy one LOL
I'm on my 3rd pacemaker and still going strong.
I don't believe that!
THIS is a 'statement' from Rome:
All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
Ya see the QUALIFIER?
'...justified by faith in Baptism ..."
When the smoke clears and the mirrors are polished, we're gonna find that THIS statement "The Catholics on this thread hold to a theology that says that you’re condemned to Hell because you’re not Catholic," is more TRUE than you care to admit.
On one level I hope you are right. That GOD will accept those that say, “I trusted and believed in Jesus, and kept all those laws, too. I deserve to be in heaven.”
GREAT! Lewis quote!
Well, who would YOU believe?
A more than 2000 year old book or a more recent apparition?
Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.
At Fatima , Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.
Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.
I urge you to also make some sacrifices as Our Lady of Fatima asked us. For those who are able, do some fasting. If you can, abstain from meat by eating meat only during one meal a day. Try to do this for two days, even ten days or 30 days. Of course we should abstain totally from meat every Friday.
Jesus and Mary — Our Hope
It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.
No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.
888 gotta be worth something...
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