Posted on 03/05/2021 8:56:42 AM PST by JAG 5000
The biblical definition of gospel is literally GOOD NEWS! You are the one who is ignoring the biblical definition.
Look up the verse where it says the holy spirit convinced people of sin, righteousness and judgement. That’s HIS (their?) Job.
Now find me a verse where we are told to go put and spread the bad news first. Find the verse where we are directed to tell people about their own sin. You won’t find it.
You might find a verse DESCRIBING how someone did it, but you won’t find a verse PROSCRIBING it. This is known as the proscriptive fallacy.
That verse in 1cor15 is as close as you’re gonna get. Paul DESCRIBES how he received the gospel in a great-power incident. Pretty special circumstances—not everyone is blinded for 3 days when preached to , and his message was DIRECTLY from Jesus, not from other believers.
Jesus was harsh with the false teachers of His day. Was Christ being unChristlike when He did so?
“The biblical definition of gospel is literally GOOD NEWS!”
“euaggelion” (from the Greek) means good news or glad tidings.
https://biblehub.com/greek/2098.htm
“You are the one who is ignoring the biblical definition.”
No. I allowed God to speak for Himself rather than interjecting my opinion. First Corinthians 15 tells us EXACTLY what the Gospel is. There are false gospels. See Galatians 1:6.
Not everything that someone might think is good news qualifies as the Gospel of the grace of God. Leaving out SIN from the Gospel as the Bible defines it, is a FALSE Gospel. I hope you understand the horrific ramifications of spreading a false gospel. See Galatians 1:8-9.
“Look up the verse where it says the holy spirit convinced people of sin, righteousness and judgement.”
John 16:7-8 NKJV
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.
When did the Helper come? Pentecost. After that, the Holy Spirit (the Comforter) began to “convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment” through the people He filled. How does He convict? Using words spoken by Spirit-filled believers. I already illustrated this in my previous post.
Let’s look at what else Jesus said in the same conversation you mentioned:
John 15:20 NKJV
Remember the word that I said to you, “A servant is not greater than his master.” If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
When He said to remember He was referring to a broader teaching earlier:
Matthew 10:24-25a NKJV
A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master.
We are supposed to follow Christ’s example. He is the model. Did He preach against sin? Yes, He did.
John 7:7 NKJV
The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil.
Jesus was hated for preaching against sin. In the above verse He is NOT speaking to His disciples but to His brothers who had not yet believed on Him. See verse 5. The reason the world did not hate his brothers is because they wanted to be people-pleasers. They did not do as Jesus did and speak out against sin.
God does not call us to be busybodies, going around trying to straighten everyone else out or pointing out every fault of everyone we meet. But we are supposed to speak the truth in love. And the truth includes that we are all sinners in need of a Savior.
Without preaching against sin, the Gospel would not make sense, and those who heard such an incomplete (or false) Gospel would not be able to understand or obey the commands of the Gospel, which are to repent and believe:
Mark 1:15b NKJV
Repent, and believe in the gospel.
So, you are saying that Psalm 51 is not God's Word? If not, then how do you define what IS God's Word?
Like you posted, a disciple is not greater than his master. We are certainly not greater than Christ, Who said that He came not to judge. John 3:17
“Who said that He came not to judge. John 3:17”
Then, preaching against sin and warning of the coming wrath of God against sin is NOT judging/condemning. Because Christ did preached against sin and warned of judgment. Right?
He came not to judge. John 3:17
We are called to follow in His footsteps.
It is the Holy Spirit’s job to convincey of sin, righteousness, and judgement ... NOT OURS.
Christ said He came not to judge in john 3:17. As obedient servants, so should we. That judgement is the job y” of the Holy Spirit. Not our job.
God does not ask my advice.
I ask His.
And if I am operating in smart mode do exactly what He says without trying to stick my own ruffles and flourishes into it.
It never works out well if I do not.
Wrong.
Jesus said that He came not to judge. John 3:17. Why do you have such a problem with that verse? Because the basis of your spirituality is judgementalism and Phariseeism.
So, you just choose to ignore ALL of the other scriptures I gave you that PROVE your position is incorrect. This isn’t a conversation, as you simply repeat your dogma over and over without actually hearing what the other person is saying.
You still haven’t acknowledged that the Gospel, according to scripture, requires addressing the issue of sin. Jesus spoke out against sin. No amount of twisting isolated passages allows you to escape from that fact.
The Gospel is about being saved from SIN. It informs us that Jesus died for our SINS. It commands us to repent from our SINS. Informing people, all of whom are sinners, that God’s wrath is coming to the world because of sin is NOT judging. It is informing. It is rescuing them from ignorance.
From the same passage you cited:
John 3:36 NKJV
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
If I tell a person that murder is a crime punishable by incarceration or execution, I am not JUDGING. I am merely informing. If they choose to murder anyway, they can be arrested, tried in a court of law, and sentenced by a judge. The judge and jury will carry out the “judging” in this case. Not me.
In such a case I am not wishing for someone to go to prison or be executed. I am hoping they will avoid these consequences by NOT committing murder in the first place. However, when it comes to eternal judgment, the crimes have already been committed. The judgment has already been decreed. But there is a remedy whereby we criminals can escape judgment. It is NOT by pretending no crime has been committed. It is by accepting our guilt AND accepting the payment for our crimes, which is Christ’s life given on the cross. He died for our SINS, according to the scriptures.
The job of the Holy Spirit to convict the world is ALWAYS done through the lives of believers in whom He dwells. The world does not have, receive, or see the Holy Spirit. So, how would He convict the world apart from the words and deeds of believers in whom He lives?
John 14:17 NKJV
The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
eu = good
vangelon = messenger
good message. Not bad message. It is the holy spirit’s unenviable job to convince people of sin, righteousness and judgement. It is NOT our job.
You ignore the verse I presented, which were the words of Christ Himself.
“Why do you have such a problem with that verse? Because the basis of your spirituality is judgementalism and Phariseeism.”
LOL. Now, you are judging me. And incorrectly. I thought you were against bringing up sin and judging people.
“You ignore the verse I presented, which were the words of Christ Himself.”
Again, you are judging me. And incorrectly. I could have sworn you were just advocating not doing what you are now doing. I think there is a word for that. Yes. Hypocrisy.
“It is the holy spirit’s unenviable job to convince people of sin, righteousness and judgement. It is NOT our job.”
You are changing the subject and backtracking.
In post #5 you said: “So who are we to be bringing up sin, righteousness and judgement. That is NOT our job! Our job is to deliver ONLY good news, not bad news.”
In YOUR words, it is not our “job” to bring up sin.
I gave you endless proof that this statement is FALSE.
And all you’ve done is fixate on one solitary verse, with your solitary idea, that is in total contradiction to what even that particular verse says and means.
“It is the holy spirit’s unenviable job to convince people of sin, righteousness and judgement. It is NOT our job.”
Did you even read what you replied to? You simply repeat a mantra like a cult devotee. Nothing in the passage says anything about what our “job” is. The whole context of the passage is that the disciples are going to be receiving the fulfillment of prophetic scripture very soon by the coming of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit convicts the world THROUGH the Spirit-controlled actions and words of the believers in whom He dwells. So, actually, the very verse you are citing PROVES that it is the “job” of believers to yield their tongues to the Holy Spirit so that He can do His “job”.
The real question is: Why are YOU resisting the Holy Spirit right now by rejecting the Word of God and stubbornly clinging to lies?
It is His words that you are ignoring and fighting. Not mine.
Look at how the Holy Spirit convicted the men Stephen preached to (among whom was Paul):
Acts 7:51-57 NKJV
[Stephen said:] “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.” When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord.
See these points:
1. the Holy Spirit was working through Stephen (whom the passage says was filled with the Spirit), but the audience was resisting Him
2. the Gospel that Spirit-filled Stephen preached addressed the issue of sin (telling the audience members that they were law breakers) and their need for repentance
3. the Holy Spirit convicted the audience through Stephen’s message because it says they were “cut to the heart”
3. they “stopped their ears,” refusing to listen
Who on this thread is stopping his ears more than you?
Christ preached against sin. Spirit-filled Stephen preached against sin. The Bible speaks against sin. But Kevmo claims superiority to Stephen, the Bible, and Christ Himself by claiming we shouldn’t bring up sin. Personally, I’m going to follow what Stephen, the Bible, and Christ say rather than Kevmo.
lotsa empty words
You said that the holy spirit convicts people of sin THROUGH believers. Got a verse for that?: Your entire premise is based on it.
“lotsa empty words”
Is that what you say about the many scriptures I cited?
“You said that the holy spirit convicts people of sin THROUGH believers. Got a verse for that?: Your entire premise is based on it.”
I can give you many. Every verse where we see the Holy Spirit convicting people of sin. Will you actually read them and think about what they mean? I gave you a specific passage (Acts 7:51-57) in the post to which you are presently replying. How about you start with that one?
Can you cite one example of the Holy Spirit convicting anyone apart from a Spirit-led believer speaking to the one being convicted by the Spirit?
Conviction comes through the Word of God when a sinner is enlightened by the Holy Spirit or his own conscience.
Titus 1:9 NKJV
Holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
Romans 3:20 NKJV
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
2 Peter 1:21 NKJV
For prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
If you read Acts 10, you will also see how the Gospel was first preached to the Gentiles, who then believed and received the Holy Spirit. God did NOT send the Holy Spirit directly to Cornelius, but sent him an angel to tell him to go see Peter. Then, Peter preached Christ to them and the Holy Spirit worked through Peter’s words. Acts 11 specifically describes their response as “repentance,” which means that they were convicted of sin in order to repent.
The coming of the Holy Spirit was a prophecy and promise of the Old Testament. While it was specifically for Israel, Joel 2 reveals that the Holy Spirit would be “poured out on all flesh.” See verse 28. The same passage is quoted several times in the New Testament in the context of the Gospel. For example...
Romans 10:13-14 NKJV
For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Also...
1 Corinthians 12:3 NKJV
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
Gospel + Holy Spirit = Calling on the name of the Lord for salvation. While an unbeliever CAN say the word “Lord” apart from the Holy Spirit, he cannot truly comprehend and call Jesus Lord (i.e. Yahweh in Joel 2) apart from the revealing work of God’s Spirit.
Galatians 3:5 NKJV
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ephesians 1:13 NKJV
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
So, we see plainly that unbelievers encounter the work of the Holy Spirit when the Gospel is preached to them. This is the doctrine of the Bible. This is the historical record of the Bible.
Spirit-led believers speak. They preach. They prophecy. People hear. Some are enlightened by the Holy Spirit, are convicted of their sins by the Holy Spirit, and are moved to call on Jesus as Lord. It is ALWAYS through the word. It is ALWAYS through the HEARING of faith. Paul said in the passage in Romans I cited above that a preacher is mandatory. People cannot hear without a preacher. And the preacher must be sent by God and empowered to preach by the Holy Spirit. This is HOW the Bible says the Holy Spirit convicts and brings about repentance and salvation through the Gospel.
The Holy Spirit convicts of sin through the preaching of the Gospel which includes the message of Christ dying for our sins. These are not separate “jobs.” True Gospel preachers do not proclaim a positive, happy-thoughts, self-esteem promoting message that leaves out anything about sin. The Holy Spirit does not operate as some nebulous force like in Star Wars that floats around “convicting” people of sin. The Holy Spirit fills, leads, and empowers believers to proclaim the Gospel, including the message of sin and the peril of eternal torment (i.e. “judgment’). The Good News is NOT that there is no sin to be addressed or no coming judgment. The Good News is that people can escape these things through repentance and faith in Christ.
Will I read them and think about what they mean? Maybe later. You’re awfully windy. In the meantime I got toenails to clip and cardboard figurines to customize.
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