Catholics project so much.
Posted on 09/07/2020 7:14:02 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
A few months back, some guy began flirting with my 19-year old daughter via her Instagram account. This is (unfortunately) pretty common, but much to my delight she does a great job with slamming the door in their face.
However, this particular guy was more persistent than usual and wouldn’t back off. His tenacity led my daughter to use her excellent technical sleuthing skills to find out exactly who he was.
Turns out the guy was a married youth pastor.
My daughter found him, his church, his wife, and other details. That presented us with the dilemma of whether we should contact his church and wife and inform them of the guy’s problematic pastime.
The experience also led my daughter to open up to my wife and me about the continuing disappointment she has with other supposed Christians. She and my older daughter have stopped going to church because they found those in the young adult groups to be far less kind, welcoming and authentic than those in their secular college crowds.
We got story after story from her of young Christian guys going on mission trips who end up attempting to molest the girls in their group. Witnessing first-hand episodes of drug use, outlandish lying and deception and similar behaviors from their peers (and their peer’s parents) have both my girls thinking that people in the church cannot be trusted in any way, shape or form.
Not exactly a pick-me-up kind of tale, huh?
But wait – aren't we told that Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven? That if you ever find the perfect church, you shouldn’t join because you’ll spoil it (said Billy Graham and Charles Spurgeon)?
We say these things in hopes of convincing non-Christians that they shouldn’t let mistakes they’ve made in their life keep them from pursuing Christianity nor expect perfection from Christians when evaluating the faith. After all, the Bible tells us we all have a sin nature that causes us to fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23) and that, even after being born again, the same sin nature remains active and causes us to do wrong (Rom. 7).
But what if our critics are more right than we like to admit? What if hypocrisy and a spirit that is anything but Christlike typifies the Church’s behavior these days?
Studies done by David Kinnaman and his Barna group, which you can find summarized in books like unChristian and You Lost Me, show that the best argument against Christianity isn’t the problem of evil or any other apologetics-styled objection. Instead, it’s the lives lived out by professing Christians.
It’s what caused the German philosopher Nietzsche to say, “I might believe in the Redeemer if his followers looked more redeemed” and Gandhi to declare: “I like Christ, but I don’t like the Christians. The Christians are so unlike their Christ.”
We read in Scripture statements like, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come” (2 Cor. 5:17) and “Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life” (Rom. 6:4).
If this is true, why is it that the “new things” and “newness of life” in professing Christian’s lives either seem completely absent or appear so seldom?
It’s at this point that many church leaders throw out the ‘church isn’t perfect’ line in hopes of blunting the accusation. Frankly, I’m tired of hearing it.
We’ve gotten to the point where this excuse uses Paul’s admissions of struggling with sin in Romans 7 like some kind of permission slip; it goes beyond admitting that we sin to almost justifying persistent sinful behavior. Plus, it does nothing to address the very real problem of incongruent behavior that exists between Christ and His Church.
I’d like to suggest a couple of possible root causes for what Kinnaman and others observe along with some cures for the issues.
I believe the biggest source of this problem to be the fact that today’s Church is 9-months pregnant with unbelievers. I say this not judgmentally, but rather because I used to be one.
There’s nothing wrong with unbelievers being in Church. But, there’s everything wrong with them staying unbelievers.
So many who sit in the pews think that because they believe in God, they’re saved and safe. So, you believe in God, do you? Big deal.
The Pharisees believed in God and Jesus rhetorically asked them how they would escape the sentence of Hell (Matt. 23:33). James told his readers if that’s all they possessed then they had nothing more than the demons (James 2:19).
When you combine a reluctance from the pulpit to offend audiences about the truth of their sin with nothing more than a general acknowledgement from that crowd that God exists, you have everything needed for a false faith, false assurance, and a life that in no way will live out the teachings of Christ because, simply put, it lacks the power to do so (e.g. Rom. 8:7).
Instead of services that resemble a comfy group Youtube session, the Church needs straightforward teaching that speaks the truth in love about sin in a way that makes an unbeliever’s conscience and soul uncomfortable to the point where they seek help. Only then will the unbeliever in the pew become a true Christian and start exhibiting the fruit and changed life that confirms a true conversion has taken place (James 2).
Lately I’ve noticed a very bad trend in my own life. When frustrated or angered, in the heat of the moment, I’ve started to let foul language fly.
This hasn’t been something with which I’ve ever really wrestled, and it’s bothered me greatly because Jesus said: “the mouth speaks that which fills the heart” (Luke 6:45). After some contemplation, I think I know what’s going on.
My wife and I have been consistently streaming various drama series that, while containing good story lines and acting, are overloaded with bad language. I’m convinced my new problem with expletives is related to that which I’ve been constantly letting in my ear-gate.
The battle with our fallen nature is real. Paul confirms this when he says, “For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please” (Gal. 5:17). Ingesting a constant, bad diet through the eyes, ears, wrong relationships and actions will result in ungodly habits forming, just like the old Church proverb says:
Two natures beat within my breast
The one is foul, the one is blessed
The one I love, the one I hate.
The one I feed will dominate.
This is why we’re told: “sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it” (Gen. 4:7). Disregarding this truth and immersing oneself in the world is a recipe for disaster where Christlikeness is concerned.
Look how fast it happened to me.
The letters of Paul are full of admissions about the struggles with sin and our spiritual war. But let’s not forget that the same Paul who wrote those things also wrote:
Paul didn’t let the reality of Romans 7 keep him from pursuing the goal that is in front of you and me each morning: Christlikeness. In fact, Paul was so confident of his behavior that he exhorted others to mimic him.
Would you feel comfortable right now doing the same?
No, the Church isn’t perfect, but if we’re not careful, we’ll use that reality as a green-light to sluff off sin and before you know it, you’re a married youth pastor who makes sexual advances over the Internet to 19-year old girls.
And that’s one tragic place to be.
Robin Schumacher is an accomplished software executive and Christian apologist who has written many articles, authored and contributed to several Christian books, appeared on nationally syndicated radio programs, and presented at apologetic events. He holds a BS in Business, Master's in Christian apologetics and a Ph.D. in New Testament. His latest book is, A Confident Faith: Winning people to Christ with the apologetics of the Apostle Paul.
Part of the problem, per se, in pursuing this pathway is that so many of the parishioners are not just in sin (as we all are), but in contradictory manners. For example, it may be fashionable to criticize gays, but ultimately many straight folks are guilty of the same sin gay people commit - sex outside of marriage. Now, to be sure from a scripture perspective gays have two sins on their soul - sex outside of marriage AND the commonality in gender. But telling unrepentant fornicating straights that they are in spiritual effect equal with gays will cause an uproar.
You left out some groups...What about those Christians who get drunk every weekend??? And those who over eat at every meal??? Or those who constantly gossip about others??? Or those who borrow things but NEVER return them???
Regarding "bad language" I think a balance needs to be struck. "G D it" and saying "J C" isn't kosher (no pun intended) but per this well-written article if Jesus said “You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good?” (Matthew 12:34)" then being like Ozzie and Harriet or Ned Flanders isn't always right, either.
I cringe when I hear especially Christians use the name of our lord in vain...Don't ask me why...Just a personal thing, I guess...
Paul's gospel IS Jesus Christ's gospel...That's where he got it from, for instruction to the churches...
What???
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
How could Paul fulfil the word of God if he didn't preach/teach what God told him to???
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Paul says through his teaching every man can be presented 'perfect' in Jesus Christ, and you downplay Paul's teaching??? The apostle appointed by God to be the apostle to the Gentile churches???
I know of no one who repented of their sins to qualify to become a Christian...
Nobody said any “qualifies” to become. Christian. Faith and repentance are a consequence of regeneration not a catalyst for it.
Not only is your definition of “sola scriptura” a strawman, but it’s a strawman that you continue to prop up after being corrected many, many times.
Do we have a 'predator' in OUR midst??
These two should match.
If they do not; I wonder which of them is wrong?
Well that's easy...
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
John says the scripture he provided was the authority to teach us how and let us know, for certain, without a doubt, to attain eternal life...And any dispute you have beyond that is a farce put out by your religion...End of subject...But just for fun, we'll continue...
Explain how it was authority between, say 33AD (when Christ died) until 325 AD when the Bible was compiled.
And especially explain how it was authority in the decades before Paul even wrote his very first letter (which not all Christians even had).
You're just a glutton for punishment...
The Christians already had the Old Testament...That's bible too, in case you didn't know...You also may not know that the apostles were in contact with the Creator (Holy Spirit) (unlike anyone, ever, in the Catholic religion) who kept in their memory every scripture that was revealed to them so they could repeat scripture 100% accurately whenever and wherever they went...And until it was put to pencil and paper these accurate memories were classified as traditions...
The Bible was compiled by John the apostle...He knew exactly what was scripture and what wasn't...And Christians were feverishly copying and distributing the accurate, real scriptures in that part of the world...
That scripture eventually made its way down to Africa (where the Catholic church fathers and the Catholic religion were from) and in 325 or so THAT religion did not compile the books of the bible, but created its own version of the bible which was already compiled...Rogue elements of the Christian religion, to gain power joined with the pagan Constantine and devised a plan where if they combined the pagan Roman Empire with elements of the Christian church they could both revile in this massive power they would create...Thus: the Catholic religion...
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
Paul's words were not written to be 'interpreted'...They were written to be (easily) understood...And the problem doesn't come from understanding...It comes from disbelief...
So why would you chose James over Paul??? James wrote one book...Paul wrote a whole slew of them...And Paul's books were addressed to the churches...And Paul says his teaching comes directly from Jesus Christ...
James is addressing his book to the 12 Tribes scattered abroad...What tribe are you in???
Are you for real????
Jesus is not just giving people His opinion or His *beliefs* as if He were just a man.
He’s teaching the God’s Truth every word He utters. They are not His *beliefs*. They are facts.
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Jesus was converting people from their old beliefs to new beliefs, was he not?
That’s beside the main point which is that there was not New Testament Scripture during Jesus lifetime nor the period shortly therafter..
So why would you chose James over Paul??? James wrote one book...Paul wrote a whole slew of them...And Paul’s books were addressed to the churches...And Paul says his teaching comes directly from Jesus Christ...
James is addressing his book to the 12 Tribes scattered abroad...What tribe are you in???
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Because some Christians were embracing Paul’s views to degenerate effect. That was the whole issue. “I’m saved! Now it’s party time!” It was a problem then just as it is today with those who think simple affirmation that Jesus is Lord is all it takes to attain irrevocable Salvation. There were people in Paul’s day who literally embraced the Faith and hedonism. It was such an embarrassment that Paul had to address it in his letters; and it is this philosophy that James is writing against. James is just one book, but it is a critical correction to Pauline excess.
The Christians already had the Old Testament...That’s bible too, in case you didn’t know...
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I’m not talking about the OT. Obviously they had that. But that was insufficient for the Christian community, right? Otherwise there would be no New Testament.
Paul’s words were not written to be ‘interpreted’...They were written to be (easily) understood...And the problem doesn’t come from understanding...It comes from disbelief...
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Well....ok...but it’s easier to disbelieve something that sounds far-fetched or morally repugnant.
Paul says through his teaching every man can be presented ‘perfect’ in Jesus Christ, and you downplay Paul’s teaching??? The apostle appointed by God to be the apostle to the Gentile churches???
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It’s not just me....James (another Apostle) is downplaying Paul.
There is no true sense in which man is “perfect”. Only God is perfect. We are made acceptable through the atoning death of Jesus. Without his death, it is not even possible for man to attain salvation. But once his sacrifice occurs, people’s actions/works matter. To say that they don’t is just base. The greatest work is to repent of ones sins and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.
No. He was fulfilling the Law for them.
The OT was how people were to recognize who Jesus was, but they didn't in large part because their eyes were blinded.
The OT is the history of the Jewish nation and the Law was put in charge to lead us to Christ, to show us our need of a Redeemer, the One that God had promised.
It's not a new *religion*. It's the fulfillment of everything God had promised to the nation of Israel.
Catholics project so much.
Catholics project so much.
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and Protestants delude themselves so much. I should know I’ve been both. If you don’t think this happened then as it does now, then you are truly “head in the sand”.
The OT was how people were to recognize who Jesus was, but they didn’t in large part because their eyes were blinded.
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“Eyes were blinded” is just a dodgy way of saying they had no clue. What about the people in Jesus’ own hometown who were surprised at him laying claim to Messiah-hood?
So you're sitting in judgment on how God chose to inspire Scripture, eh?
That's a lot of chutzpah.
Paul expressed no such excess. His teachings were these, which destroys your assumption that salvation by faith alone leads to wanton, excess sinning.
Romans 6:1-4 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:12-18 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
Philippians 1:9-11 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Nowhere ever did Paul ever suggest, imply, or condone the thinking that now that we are saved by grace through faith that it's a license to sin.
That's purely a fabricated accusation leveled against Christians in a vain attempt to impose works based religion on people.
It's also pretty telling about what the person would do if THEY honestly, really believed that salvation was by faith.
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