Posted on 12/26/2019 1:55:15 PM PST by Red Badger
So does this make those who support Trump a Trumpeteer?
Kinda has a nice ringtone to it; so to speak.
Maybe someone will do a Trumpeteer video!
We may "prophesy in part" but that "part" must the the 100% accurate truth.
God is not a God of lies.
LOL, Im with you. But thanks for the scripture. I will run that one by the kids and see what they make of it.
I'd have to have a very clear understanding of how to do that without being disrespectful, to even begin to attempt that.
But given that's in scripture, I think I have to give Kim Clement, the benefit of the doubt, on that item.
Janet Reno said Trump would never be elected while she was alive.
*boom*
“There would be a new form of energy and the American economy would transform quickly. “
Electric cars, trucks, Semis, motorcycles, etc.?
Read the entire chapter in context about the coming Day of The Lord:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joel+2&version=NIV
Then continue to Joel 3, a companion prophecy to the Armageddon prophecy.................
Okay Trucker39 blew my mind last night with Isaiah 45:11. Apparently Clement is in good company when he says God wants us to command him. Maybe there is a point where our souls are so aligned with God and we are so immersed in the spirit that we can do that without being disrespectful. Can't imagine it. But Isaiah said it.
However, Forgiven_Sinner, says if a prophecy ever fails the person is a false prophet. That aligns with what Moses told us in
Deuteronomy 18:22 – “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”
Retrofitted points out Clement admits to having been wrong. Thus the logical conclusion is a false prophet or at least a prophet that can't be counted on.
We know Paul encountered a woman who was possessed of a spirit that could tell the future. She harrassed Paul until Paul cast the spirit out of the woman making the town really angry. So prophesying by an evil spirit is possible.
But is it possible to tap into the Holy Spirit and get it mostly right? Yet fall short of being a true prophet?
"While I find the Clement prophecies interesting, I’m not putting my confidence in them." -unlearner
I also think about the crazy Tesla conspiracy con men who are always claiming to have discovered free energy. LOL
Is 2020 the Year of Solid-State Batteries for EVs?:
https://www.navigantresearch.com/news-and-views/is-2020-the-year-of-solid-state-batteries-for-evs
Solid state battery breakthrough could double the density of lithium-ion cells:
https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3798378/posts
Solid-state batteries show promise:
https://www.autonews.com/shift/solid-state-batteries-show-promise
1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 – “Do not despise prophecies. test all things; hold fast what is good.”
I think we should despise false prophets. But is there a grey area?
My daughter says that in modern versions they translate that verse ISA 45:11 as a question. It’s in a chapter talking about God’s power.
“Do you question what I do for my children? Do you give me orders about the works of my hands?”
That makes more sense to me. But I don’t entirely trust modern versions either. NIV NLT CEV ISV, THe older ones don’t.
Roger that. I find it interesting that just beginning with the King James scholars, and on down through several centuries, and myriad translations, nobody realized that verse was a question until some students in the year of Our Lord, 2019 did. Mind boggling.
Danny. An example of my position: One of my fave verses is Psalms 68:19KJV. “Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits; even the God of our salvation”. But the NIV scholars had no hesitation in changing it to, “Praise be to the Lord, to God our Savior, who daily bears our burdens”. I have very mixed emotions about that.
“But occasionally speaking ‘presumptuously’ and getting it wrong some of the time? Or does getting it wrong, necessarily make a person truly evil?”
In the present dispensation of superabounding grace, we (the church) do not execute people. We do not administer physical punishments such as prison, flogging, or fines. These errors crept into the church in previous times but have been mostly eradicated.
So, a false prophet or heretic is subject to spiritual discipline, which could include being put out of the church for being unrepentant. (Those who are outside, God judges.)
I agree with the statement that someone could have a prophetic gift but also speak presumptuously. It is far more serious to make such statements appended to the claim that God said it. God might chasten his children up to and including premature death for such offenses. We see examples of such judgment in the New Testament. While I am not asserting such to be the case with Clement, I also would not rule this out. It appears from a cursory review of his claims (of God speaking) that he has gotten some things very wrong. I believe I heard him make claims that Bill Gates and Hillary Clinton would turn to God and serve God in some form or fashion. I suppose since they are still alive it is not too late. But presently they are far from it.
“Apparently Clement is in good company when he says God wants us to command him.”
Or perhaps bad company. A mark of good theology and exegesis is teaching the “whole counsel of God” as Paul described it in Acts. It is the characteristic of cults to advocate erroneous teachings using proof texts.
The example in Isaiah is rhetorical. Would a person command God? It’s ridiculous. There is similar language in Job when God speaks to Job. It is like asking, “Who has become the Lord’s counselor?” Likewise, sometimes the word used for prayer/petitions literally means “demand”. Do we ever have the audacity to demand something of God? Of course not.
In context, we bring our legal demands to God. You can think of a legal demand as something contractual like a check. If someone pays you by check and you take it to the bank to cash it, you are making a type of legal demand. You hand it to the teller and fully expect to receive cash in return. But you don’t do so with a suspicious, demanding attitude. That would be rude. And we certainly do not bring legal demands to God with suspicion and doubting His trustworthiness. It is with an attitude of humility, reverence, and thankfulness that we appeal to God to honor His promises.
So, we can come to God and appeal on the basis that His word says “He cares for you,” and “the Father knows you have need of all of these things,” and “my God shall supply all of your needs.” God can accomplish things when everyone and everything else fails. And this seems to be when He does so most often. But I can assure you, on the basis of many scriptural principles, He will not do so if someone tries to “command” Him or “demand” that He does a certain thing.
“Deuteronomy 18:22 – “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”
Retrofitted points out Clement admits to having been wrong. Thus the logical conclusion is a false prophet or at least a prophet that can’t be counted on. “
This is biblically accurate, and is what I meant.
Thank you for posting it, for all who had this concern regarding Mr. Clement. I believe that he may have been doctrinally problematic as well.
__________________
I believe that the Lord was speaking here through Isaiah to King Cyrus, the ruler, from Isaiah 45:1 to Isaiah 45:13.
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Isaiah Chapter 45
1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus,
whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5 ¶ I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
14 Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Perhaps I am incorrect, but more reading is necessary here.
Prophecies of evil can be turned away by repentance. See Jonah in Nineveh.
The prophecy Jonah brought wasn’t conditional, but God revoked the decree when Nineveh sincerely repented
Bump
People can get “the spririt of the age” right and therefore make a ton of prognostications and I will applaud that. George Gilder is a secular sort who does that.
It is also possible to get a sensitivity to the Holy Spirit right and have a “feel” for what is and what might go down. I have sympathy for that.
What I absolutely cannot stand is this business of speaking first person for God. The older administration of the covenant was clear that this is a lying spirit (which can sometimes speak truth!!!) and when Israel was a theocracy, it was punishable by death. We are not under the civil codes of the OT, so I ain’t for stoning, but neither to I have one scintilla of patience for them
It’s a fun word study, looking up ‘prophet’ in the New Testament.
Concerning your question we see:
Acts 11:27 During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)
A true prophet.
Acts 13:1
Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.
A recognized church office and gift.
Acts 15:32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers.
Prophesying is about speaking God’s word more than it is predicting the future. God’s word predicts the future. If you stick to it you won’t be wrong.
Acts 21:9 He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.
10 After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”
This came to pass.
1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
Prophets are a gift of God given to the church.
1 Corinthians 14:37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.
A prophet must speak the truth, or be ignored by the church.
Ephesians 4:10-12(NIV) 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.
Prophets purpose is to build up the church for works of service.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
False prophets are identified by the heresies they teach.
2 Peter 2:15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer,[a] who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
Here you have a true prophet, Balaam, who was wicked. He could only speak what God let him and he was killed for his wickedness.
Even the donkey was a prophet!
1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
John shows how to identify false prophets. Jesus Christ is the key. Is He God in the flesh? If yes, a true prophet.
Revelation 11:9-11 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
The two witnesses in the end time are prophets and will be killed for their preaching.
Bottom line: truth is vital to a prophet in the New Testament as in the Old Testament.
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