Skip to comments.November 10 - John Likened to Elijah
Posted on 11/10/2019 4:02:07 AM PST by metmom
For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come (Matthew 11:1314).
All of Gods Old Testament revelation climaxed in John the Baptist. And the apostle John picked up the theme (which at times had been only implicit) that said, The Messiah is coming!
The Lord Jesus suggests a close likeness between John and the prophet Elijah, based on Malachis prophecy, which are the final words of the Old Testament: Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse (Mal. 4:56).
That Malachi referred to the future John the Baptist and not a literally reincarnated Elijah is clear when we look at Luke 1:17It is he [John] who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah. John himself clearly denied that he was actually Elijah come back (John 1:21). Rather he was like Elijahinwardly in spirit and power and outwardly in independence and nonconformity.
John was uniquely great, in the mold of Elijah and more so than any man but Jesus; but Gods highest bestowing of greatness is not Johns. His greatness, Jesus declared, pales beside those like us who enter Gods spiritual kingdom by trusting in the Son as Lord and Savior. Thus true greatness is to be like Jesus Christ, not like Elijah or John the Baptist.
Spirit and power. How could these words more readily describe you and your ministry in the kingdom? Are these characteristics the sole possession of the overly demonstrably inclined? Or does spirit and power even have a gentle side in the cause of Christ?
Studying Gods Word ping
I don't think that MormonISM 'accepts' it.
Spoiler alert: The big Mormon group (in SLC) does NOT consider the JST to be 'scripture'.
I am of the belief that when you do finally surrender and you let your “pride” diminish and you seek the grace and love of God you will experience an entirely different outlook similar to a child’s who can easily accept happenings and move on with ease . When you have a faith that is childlike it allows all the pretenses to fall away and all of the obstacles that satan and especially yourself constantly put in way are simply gone. To me that is the power derived by the spirit that (helper/holy spirit)is with you constantly and if you pray for it to consume you in your thoughts , actions and words you will operate within a peace that I feel God wants us to be within as he will use you to shine so that others will hopefully gravitate towards Jeseus and then to his father our loving and fair God . Praise and glory to God as without him the darkness would consume and we would never see the brilliance and beauty that surrounds us here . May God bless all of you and your family and loved ones as he has done with me . Thank you for loving me God .
Thank you Elsie
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Regardless of how this is variously described or explained, the basic details are that
Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind without seeing death.
Elijah returned as a new baby named John. As a grown man he baptized with water.
Elijah (as Elijah) appeared in the Transfiguration along with Moses, who did die.. the location of his grave not revealed.
That's just what's in there to see on the face of the text.
The interpretations of this and many other words remind me of the message at the very end of the Gospel written by a man named John. Jesus said "x", but then the brethren ran off to spread their interpretation as if it were the same thing. John, however, was minded to set the record straight, to restate Jesus' actual words.
John sounds like he might have been the wet blanket (pedant) of the bunch.
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Now for "some reason", John was the one who received the Revelation (discovery, disclosure) of Jesus Christ. The John who was the Baptist received the revelation of who was the Christ (having been instructed to watch for a dove).
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease [lit. exodus] which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
Elijah returned as a new baby named John.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
I've also come across this reference with the comma indicating that "in the desert" was spoken, such as:
Isa 40.3 A voice calls, "In the desert, clear the way of the Lord, straighten out in the wilderness, a highway for our God."
Without original punctuation it could be either
The voice of one crying, "In the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."
Either way, the word for desert/wilderness is midbar, which is spelled the same as and plays off of and is "from a word" (or thing).
I / you m. sg. / he / it speak(s)
"In the wilderness" is the name of what in English Bibles is known as the Book of Numbers, but math is hard..
I think I see a fight over who has the best hermeneutics.
John is Elijah? Completely Rediculous ....
Malachi 4: 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
The coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord is still in the future (2nd Coming). The first coming of Christ which John preceded was as Christ coming as a ‘lamb to the slaughter’ .... nothing great and dreadful about it.
Please use a little logic in your ‘knee-jerk’ attempts to undermine LDS doctrine.
No...my immediate comprehension did not fail prior to my post...so I am not in competition.
Thank you fproy2222!
Now let's find all the kids that Ol' JS produced...
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
5157, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 5866, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
You can only hope.
At least the non-English BoM's don't have this problem; being as they are 'translated' NOT from the Reformed Egyptian caractors; but what Ol' Joe wrote down from burying his face in his hat.
How much 'logic' can you handle??
Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battleShiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combatThe Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with themThe Jaredite nation is utterly destroyedOnly Coriantumr remains.
1 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the awords which Ether had spoken unto him.
2 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.
3 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul amourned and refused to be bcomforted.
5 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.
6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.
8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.
10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.
11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.
13 And it came to pass that Ether did abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.
14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.
15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their childrenboth men, women and children being armed with aweapons of war, having shields, and bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of warthey did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.
16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.
17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.
19 But behold, the aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and bSatan had full power over the chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.
22 And when the night came they were adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.
28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.
29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.
31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
32 And it came to pass that aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.
33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he afinished his brecord; (and the chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.
34 Now the last words which are written by aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.
And yet the BOOK says...
And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.
So; logically; that Ol' elsie will post a bunch of scripture to search.
What Mormons admit to teaching, believing and practicing
Book of Mormon
That is claimed to contain the FULLNESS of the GOSPEL
|Heaven consists of three levels or "glories"; evil people go to the lowest, "hell" (D&C 76:81-90), the glory of which "surpasses all understanding. Only Mormon apostates do not go to heaven, but to "outer darkness" (D&C 76:31-39)||Only two possible fates after death: heaven or hell. Levels or degrees of heaven are not mentioned.|
|Jesus and God the Father are separate beings. (D&C 130:22)||Jesus and God the Father are the same. (Mosiah 3:8, 15:1-5, Ether 4:7, 12)|
|God has a body of flesh and bones. (D&C 130:22)||God is a spirit. (Alma 18:26-28)|
|God was once a man like us, and progressed to godhood. (TJS 342-345)||God does not change and has never changed. (Mormon 9:9, Moroni 8:18)|
|There are many gods. (TJS 370-373)||There is only one God. (Alma 11:28-30)|
|We can become gods ourselves. (D&C 76:58, TJS 342-345)||No mention of this idea.|
|We lived with God in a spirit world (a "premortal existence") before being born into this life. (D&C 49:17, 93:23-29, 138:55-56)||No mention of this idea.|
|God is the literal father of our spirits, conceived by him and our "Mother in Heaven" (MD 516)||No mention of this idea.|
|Mary conceived Jesus by natural means, namely, God the Father impregnated her. (MD 546-47, JoD 1:50-51, 8:115, 11:268)||Mary conceived Jesus "by the power of the Holy Ghost" (Alma 7:10), by being "carried away in the spirit" (1 Nephi 11:15-19)|
|Those who do not accept the gospel in this life will have the opportunity to do so after death, and can receive baptism by proxy (D&C 127, 128)||Salvation must be attained in this life; after one dies it is too late (Alma 34:34, 2 Nephi 9:38, Mosiah 2:36-39). No mention of baptism for the dead.|
|David and Solomon did nothing wrong by having many wives. (D&C 132:38-39)||The polygamy of David and Solomon was "abominable" to the Lord (Jacob 2:24)|
|Priesthood divided into an upper (" after the order of Melchizedek") and lower ("Aaronic") priesthood||No distinction between "priests" and "high priests"; priesthood is "after the order of [the Son of] God" (Alma 4:20, 13:1-12). No mention of "Aaronic" priesthood.|
|Salvation in the highest heaven ("exaltation") requires undergoing the "endowment" initiation ceremony in a temple, the details of which are kept strictly secret. The participants are required to take numerous oaths, which are also secret. Details||"Secret combinations" requiring secret oaths are condemned. (Mormon 8:27, 40, 2 Nephi 26:22, Helaman 6:22, and many others.) No mention of any such ritual as part of the gospel. No mention of "exaltation" or "endowment."|
|Exaltation requires marriage in a Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4)||No mention of this doctrine.|
|"Celestial marriage" lasts for time and all eternity. (DoS 2:58 ff)||No mention of this doctrine.|
|The "first resurrection" is only for the righteous. (D&C 76:64. 63:18)||The "first resurrection" is for all who died before Christ's resurrection, righteous and unrighteous alike (Mosiah 15:24, Alma 40:16-17)|
|The "idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart" is false. (D&C 130:31; verse 22 says that it is the Holy Ghost that "dwell[s] in us")||"The Lord" dwells in the hearts of the righteous. (Alma 34:36)|
|The Lord's Supper ("the sacrament") consists of bread and water.||The Lord's Supper should consist of bread and wine. (3 Nephi 18:1-9, Moroni 5)|
|Only the priest blessing the sacrament kneels.||The priest is to kneel with the church while blessing the sacrament. (Moroni 4:2; see also D&C 20:76)|
|Use of alcohol, coffee, tea ("hot drinks") is forbidden. (D&C 89)||No such commandment.|
|Church is governed by the three men of the "First Presidency," higher in authority than the Quorum of Twelve.||Jesus placed twelve disciples over the church he founded in America. (3 Nephi 12, passim) No "first presidency" mentioned.|
|Except for Joseph Smith, all prophets are promoted to that office by those above them in rank, and by seniority. They work their way up to the top.||Prophets are called directly by God.|
|The church is trying to befriend people of other religions with the message "All churches have some truth"; "The church has always extended a hand of friendship and fellowship to those of other faiths, and will continue to do so."||There are two churches only: the true church and the "church of the devil," "the whore of Babylon" (1 Nephi 14:10-12). A church which seeks to become "popular in the eyes of the world" is of the devil. (1 Nephi 22:23)|
|Since 1978 the church claims that it is not racist, that all races are equal and that the color of a person's skin has no religious significance.||A dark skin is a curse from God, a punishment for one's unrighteousness (or the unrighteousness of one's ancestors). A dark skin can become light through righteousness. (1 Nephi 12:23, 2 Nephi 5:21, Alma 3:6, Mormon 5:15, Jacob 3:8-9, 3 Nephi 2:15)|
|The church teaches that faith, repentance, baptism are the "first principles" of the gospel, but that in order to obtain the highest degree of heaven, much more is required (obedience, tithes, endowment, etc.)||Christ says that the gospel is faith, repentance, baptism ONLY. Any teaching beyond that will lead to hell 3 Nephi 11:31-40|
In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and
knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith’s baby.”
I have heard that rumer and can only find evedance of it being a little truth with a whole lot of made up stuff.
And then repeated by those who care more for the put down than the truth.
Do you have a reference I can check to see if there is any more truth in the version you repeat?
Question: Why does “and it came to pass” appear so often in the Book of Mormon?
This much-maligned phrase is actually evidence of the Book of Mormon’s authentic antiquity
Some have mocked the frequent repetition of “and it came to pass” in the Book of Mormon. Mark Twain famously joked that if the phrase were omitted, Joseph would have published a pamphlet instead of a book. As it turns out, however, this much-maligned phrase is actually evidence of the Book of Mormon’s authentic antiquity.
The phrase and it came to pass, appears 727 times in the King James Version of the Old Testament
Donald W. Parry, an instructor in biblical Hebrew at BYU, wrote in the Ensign:
The English translation of the Hebrew word wayehi (often used to connect two ideas or events), and it came to pass, appears some 727 times in the King James Version of the Old Testament. The expression is rarely found in Hebrew poetic, literary, or prophetic writings. Most often, it appears in the Old Testament narratives, such as the books by Moses recounting the history of the children of Israel.
As in the Old Testament, the expression in the Book of Mormon (where it appears some 1,404 times) occurs in the narrative selections and is clearly missing in the more literary parts, such as the psalm of Nephi (see 2 Ne. 4:2025); the direct speeches of King Benjamin, Abinadi, Alma, and Jesus Christ; and the several epistles.
But why does the phrase and it came to pass appear in the Book of Mormon so much more often, page for page, than it does in the Old Testament? The answer is twofold. First, the Book of Mormon contains much more narrative, chapter for chapter, than the Bible. Second, but equally important, the translators of the King James Version did not always render wayehi as and it came to pass. Instead, they were at liberty to draw from a multitude of similar expressions like and it happened, and became, or and was.
Wayehi is found about 1,204 times in the Hebrew Bible, but it was translated only 727 times as and it came to pass in the King James Version. Joseph Smith did not introduce such variety into the translation of the Book of Mormon. He retained the precision of and it came to pass, which better performs the transitional function of the Hebrew word.
Care to post the stuff YOU found that disproves what I've already posted?
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