What Is Better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis: “Both of Them Together”

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[ebb tide]

What Is Better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis: “Both of Them Together”

The Youth Pastoral Office of Magdeburg diocese, Germany, will organize an October 2020 “ecumenical pilgrimage” for young people to Rome.

The motto of the journey is “With Luther to the Pope”. A similar trip was already taken in 2016.

The pilgrimage is co-organized by the regional Protestant State church, although the Protestants repudiate pilgrimages.

On the trip's webpage Mit-Luther-zum-Papst.de, the tour operator, Hans Höffmann, remembers what Pope Francis said to the participants of the 2016 pilgrimage when asked by a youngster: "What is better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis answered in German: "Both of them together!”

Martin Luther attended school in Magdeburg as a boy. As a preacher, he led the city to defect from the Church. Magdeburg became the first major city to publish Luther’s writings.

[grey_whiskers]

Mary is an addition channel of Grace. NOT the source (the factory); but a "factory authorized dealer".

For the "personal relationship" with Christ...

Ever consider what birth is like?

Birth starts with pregnancy...since those who are pregnant first, cannot give birth.

When the time is come, full gestation one hopes, uterine contractions begin; the cervix widens, and the baby is pushed out of the womb.

The process is called "labor."

You might note that St. Paul writes in Scripture, about "my little children, with whom I am in labor until Christ is formed in you." Galatians 4:19

OK, there is such a thing as a C-section. ("Christ-section" ?...bad pun)

But in general birth is not instantaneous.

St. Paul also writes to the Corinthians, "Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready."

So we see the comparison to birth, to infancy and milk, to growing up to maturity in Christ.

From what Scriptures do you get the supposition that the ONLY way to have a relationship with Jesus is to "say the sinner's prayer"?

For the Catholic example...have you ever tried *reading* the autobiographies of any Catholics, whether Saints or visionaries?

One of the Catholic Nuns, spoke of wanting nothing from childhood but to be the humble servant of the Holy Family; and begged her Mother Superior to sell her to Jesus as his little donkey.

She had a number of revelations from Jesus about prayers for God's Mercy in reparation for Atheism and Blasphemy; and that He had chosen her, because she was such a nobody, all the credit would go even more to Him.

I find great similarities in the writings of some of the Saints, with the writings of the Pentecostals, about being led continuously in prayer (and yes, in actions) by the Holy Spirit.

The main difference being, the Catholics all seem to say that God has instructed them Himself, that even if their superiors contradict HIs impression on their hearts, to obey their superiors; whereas Protestants seem to rejoice in any excuse for "We must obey God rather than men."

This, despite St. Paul *immediately* apologizing for reviling the High Priest when he commanded someone to strike Paul...and St. Paul quoting the Scripture, "For it is written, brothers, you must not speak evil of a leader of your people."

Why do the Protestants automatically declare that they get a free pass?

I am beginning to consider that to be a danger, just as Protestants...no, that's not fair. Some Protestants declare in advance, even without finding out what was said, that ALL revelations whatsoever after the close of the New Testament, *must* be diabolical.

[grey_whiskers]

Still wanna say He's not your personal Lord and Savior?

I never said that. I pointed out that phrase didn't appear in the New Testament as such.

And instead of admitting, oops, you're right; but the concept is congruent with Scripture -- you lied through your teeth about me and about Catholics.

As far as His dying for us?

I posted one set of Sorrowful meditations for the Rosary.

You apparently missed them in your haste to start foaming at the mouth.

Read them. Notice that they do nothing BUT talk about the Suffering and Death of Jesus for us.

The Agony of Jesus in the Garden

1st Sorrowful Mystery

My Son came with His apostles to the mount of Olives. There was a garden there that He frequently went to pray: He felt a sadness; a deep, deep sadness. He felt lonely: my Son in His humanity felt a deeper sadness than anyone could ever feel because He was pure of heart: He was sinless. He took His closest friends, Peter whom He was to give charge of the Church, James, and John. John was the one who was going to take care of me after Jesus had risen from the dead. Jesus said to them: My heart is sorrowful to the point of death: stay here and pray and keep watch while I go and pray by Myself." Jesus went over further to pray: He wanted to pray by Himself. He wanted to pour out His heart to His Father as I often have seen Him do with His prayer. My Son always prayed continuously to His Father: He always looked to the Father for His consolation. During the time He prayed, He saw all the agony He was going to suffer: and the agony was not so much the pain of the crucifixion as the pains of the sins of the world. Every sin, every injustice, every infidelity He saw and felt at that very moment, caused Him to sweat blood. His agony, His sorrow, and so much sinfulness caused the blood to burst from His forehead. It was just another anticipation of when His Precious Blood would be shed on the cross. That Blood that was sweat on Gethsemane blessed that very spot into Jesus' sacred place of prayer.

My children, never seek your comfort in anyone but God. In your times of loneliness, in your times of depression, in your times of doubt, have recourse to prayer. When you go to the Father, offer this mystery for those who are in doubt: those who do not know where to turn to: those who are depressed: the mentally ill: the emotionally ill. Pray that as the Father sent an angel to comfort my Son, the Lord in His mercy will comfort them and enlighten them.

The Scourging at the Pillar

2nd Sorrowful Mystery

My Son was sent to Pilate after being judged by the Jewish authorities, I was there in spirit: I heard Pontius Pilate as he came out to talk to the crowd. He said: "I find no fault in this Man worthy of death: so I will have Him scourged: then I will set Him free." Pilate said this to placate the crowd because he knew my Son was innocent of all the accusations that they were throwing at Him. Pilate sent my Son to be scourged: He was whipped. The normal procedure was to be whipped thirty-nine times. My Son was whipped furiously: the demons took possession of the soldiers. All the anger of hell was vented out on my Son. At that moment, I asked the Father to spare my Son from dying at the scourging and the Father answered my prayer: and still the soldiers that scourged my Son were filled with the very hatred of hell itself. That was the reaction they had to the purity of my Son. When Jesus received all this scourging for the love of you, it was because He loved you that He took all this pain: because He wanted you to be healed of your sins: of all the diseases of the soul, mind, and body that Jesus took all this punishment. Jesus did not take all this punishment to condemn you: He took it all to save you. Behold the love of my Son for you and yet behold His meekness as the Lamb that is brought to the slaughter: my Son was scourged without even opening His mouth.

My children, my Son wishes to heal you by His stripes. By the scourging He received, He wants to set you free of all types of oppression, of all types of bondage. By the stripes of my Son you are healed and set free. My children, pray to the Father that He will heal the wounds of your heart so that you can pray with love. Ask the Father to teach you how to love the way my Son loves. Pray for those who are possessed by hatred: pray for those who have an insatiable need to seek revenge. Pray that they too will be liberated and healed by the stripes of my Son.

Jesus is Crowned with Thorns

3rd Sorrowful Mystery After the scourging, my Son was led to the praetorium where the soldiers wanted to further amuse themselves. They took some twine filled with thorns and made a skull like cap. They placed the cap on the head of Jesus and pressed causing the thorns to penetrate His scalp until He began to bleed. Then they put a reed in His hand and they knelt before Him and they mocked Him and said to Him, "All Hail, King of the Jews," and they spit in His face, they hit His head with the reed, they slapped His face, and plucked His beard. Jesus continued to say nothing. He received it all.

My children, Jesus still receives a crown of thorns from many. It is normal for Jesus to be mocked by His enemies but it is more painful when Jesus is mocked by His own people. Even today, my children, Christians mock Him by living in mortal sin, by receiving Communion in mortal sin, by not believing the truth contained in the scriptures which is the word of God. My children, Christians mock Jesus and crown Him with thorns when they invent their own doctrines at their convenience: when they use the gospel of my Son, they use it to justify their own teachings, their own doctrine. My children, I call you to make reparation to my Son. Follow Him by leaving all sin behind: by loving Him and revering Him in the Blessed Sacrament. When you receive Him in Holy Communion, tell Him that you love Him for those who will not love Him. Offer this mystery to the Father in reparation for all the blasphemes that were ever said against my Son. Pray for those who take the name of God in vain: pray for those who will not keep Sunday holy. Promise the Father that you will keep Sunday holy by going to Mass and receiving Holy Communion and avoiding all unnecessary work in order to give yourself to prayer and doing the will of God. I am praying for you, my children and I will guide you in loving Jesus for those who will not love Him.

Jesus Carried the Cross

4th Sorrowful Mystery

That Friday, that first Good Friday, Jesus, my Son, after He was scourged and was crowned with thorns, was given a cross to carry through the streets of Jerusalem all the way to Mount Calvary where they had crucified others. He carried the cross through the same streets which He had come triumphantly the Sunday before. The people who cried "Hosanna" now cried "Crucify Him." I was there along the way and I met my Son: His face all beaten, all covered with blood from His bleeding head, tired and dirty, and yet our eyes met. Our eyes filled with love for each other. Both of us knew that it was totally unavoidable that He should go through this agony for the salvation of the world. The weight of the cross on Jesus' body was not as heavy as the weight of the sins of the world on His soul. Out of obedience to His Father, Jesus continued the journey until He reached Calvary. He met a group of women who were weeping and He said to them: "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but for yourselves and your children."

My children, pray for the gift of tears, that through that gift the Lord will cleanse your souls of sin and the effects of sin. My children, pray for the gift of obedience: that each one of you will be obedient to the call that the Father has given to you. Pray for those who have burdens on their hearts and the weight of their trials seems more than they can bear, pray to the Father that these people will have the strength to carry their crosses following Jesus. Finally, ask the Father for the gift of being true disciples of Jesus: ask the Father that you will always say yes to Jesus and to His way even though it may mean suffering and sorrow. Pray to the Father that you will have the grace to take all out of love for Him.

The Crucifixion of our Lord

5th Sorrowful Mystery

When we had finally reached Mount Calvary, my Son was thrown on the cross after being stripped naked in front of the crowd. They drove spikes through His hands and feet and yet the Lord gave me the strength to withstand the sight of my Son being nailed on the cross and literally butchered by the soldiers. They lifted the cross to its place, and then my Son hung there for three hours. I heard my Son say, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they're doing." Jesus prayed for His enemies and pleaded for their ignorance: He also pleaded for your ignorance. There were two thieves crucified with Jesus, one on His right and the other on His left, and to the repentant thief He promised paradise. Finally He looked at me and at John: He told me, "Woman, behold your Son" and to John, "Behold your mother." My spiritual motherhood is Jesus' gift to you: Jesus gave me to His disciples and to the whole Church to be mother and intercessor for everyone who calls himself a Christian. When the third hour came, the sky became dark and Jesus cried out, "Father, into Your hands I commend My Spirit."

My Son bowed His head, the symbol of obedience to the Father, and then the earth began to quake. There was a great storm in Heaven, the whole of creation was reacting at man's crime, the killing of their God, the killing of their Savior. After it was calm, Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimethea, and John took my Son down and then placed Him in my arms. I remembered while I was holding Him the prophecy of Simeon, "The sword of sorrow will pierce your soul." That prophecy was coming true: but just as I was holding my Son in my arms, I remembered His words that He would rise, again. All that I needed to do was to wait until that prophecy was fulfilled. My children, ask the Father to extend His salvation and forgiveness to your enemies. Pray for those who abuse you: pray for those who hurt you in any form. Ask the Father that they will also be cleansed by the blood of Jesus shed on the cross. Come, my children, to the foot of the cross and there I will pray with you and for you that your sins will be blotted out: that you will experience the redeeming power of my Son. Pray before the crucifix and I will pray with you. Ask the Father that you will constantly remember the death of my Son and be ever grateful for the salvation He has obtained for you.

[grey_whiskers]

You've been reading Hal Lindsey again, right?

(And that's a reflection on the _timing_. He said according to Biblical Principles ^TM, Jesus talking about the fig tree putting forth leaves was a type, for Israel becoming a nation. And "this generation" referred to a Biblical generation, 40 years. So we had until maybe 1988 until all of Revelation came true. So the Church kinda dropped out of trying to improve society, because Jesus was coming *right back*.)

See, I remember being at a Protestant Church who got all in a huff back in 1983 or 1984, when a local bank introduced a way to *gasp* pay your bills over the phone!

One of the people there literally said to beware, the next step was going to be an ad with someone holding out their hand with 666 on it, "There's a new and easy way to pay your bills."

...still hasn't happened yet.

You *gotta* stop falling for every Prottie fad, just because it gets wide promotion and airplay on Christian radio, mmmkay?

[ealgeone]

Mary is an addition channel of Grace. NOT the source (the factory); but a "factory authorized dealer".

The Mariolatry is so strong in Roman Catholicism.

From what Scriptures do you get the supposition that the ONLY way to have a relationship with Jesus is to "say the sinner's prayer"?

You're the one hung up on the phrase "the sinner's prayer".

But if a person is not a believer, that makes them a sinner.

If they ask Jesus for forgiveness and believe He is their savior.....sounds like a prayer from a sinner. Or, a "sinner's prayer."

As much as Roman Catholicism has rote sayings/prayers, etc, for seemingly everything, you'd think you'd be ok with this.

****************

The main difference being, the Catholics all seem to say that God has instructed them Himself, that even if their superiors contradict HIs impression on their hearts, to obey their superiors; whereas Protestants seem to rejoice in any excuse for "We must obey God rather than men."

Well, right now your pope is going off the RC rails....you gonna obey him or God?

********

This, despite St. Paul *immediately* apologizing for reviling the High Priest when he commanded someone to strike Paul...and St. Paul quoting the Scripture, "For it is written, brothers, you must not speak evil of a leader of your people."

1Paul, looking intently at the Council, said, “Brethren, I have lived my life with a perfectly good conscience before God up to this day.” 2The high priest Ananias commanded those standing beside him to strike him on the mouth. 3Then Paul said to him, “God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall! Do you sit to try me according to the Law, and in violation of the Law order me to be struck?” 4But the bystanders said, “Do you revile God’s high priest?” 5And Paul said, “I was not aware, brethren, that he was high priest; for it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT SPEAK EVIL OF A RULER OF YOUR PEOPLE.’” Acts 23:1-5

I don't really see an apology from Paul in the exchange.

You might want to head over to the caucus threads and discuss this with some of your fellow RCs...one in particular who daily posts numerous threads against your pope.

I am beginning to consider that to be a danger, just as Protestants...no, that's not fair. Some Protestants declare in advance, even without finding out what was said, that ALL revelations whatsoever after the close of the New Testament, *must* be diabolical.

There are no new revelations.

3Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints Jude 3

Any "vision", "dream" etc, someone claims to have had must be compared to Scripture for accuracy. This is why Christians reject the messages of apparitions. They contain enough falsehood to render anything else they say invalid.

This includes the writings of the ECFs. If they agree with Scripture, ok. If they disagree with Scripture, it is diabolical.

But this leaves the Roman Catholic in a quandary as the ECFs do contradict not only themselves, but Scripture.

At Trent, when Roman Catholicism dogmatized its canon it did not include a single writing from the ECFs.

Why? Only Scripture is God inspired. The ECFs are at best good commentaries, but they are not inspired writings.

So which should a believer rely upon?

I think I'll stand on the Word of God and not fallible men.

[mdmathis6]

Most “protties” as you put them see these things mostly as a trend towards the world despotism the Bible prophesies about. The incrementals are kicks in the behind to remind us to “keep watching” as the Lord says. No there hasn’t been a 666 on the hand yet though there was a famous magazine cover in the late 80’s showing an infant with a upc symbol on its hand. We know already people are chipping themselves and various venues are experimenting with cashless commerce. Each one of these things by themselves have morally neutral purposes. It is when people in power who act to bring their personal biases to bear when they rope the masses into their schemes is when the manure hits the fan. No more using cash, have to be chipped for the good of the new order oh and you can’t be a Christian or speak out against first citizen “Nice guy”, we will curtail your economic participation privileges.

Even divorced from the Revelation stuff, you no doubt have already seen unfavored groups being deplatformed from social media groups and or their money processing privileges cancelled by banking firms. No doubt you’ve noted that even private citizens who may have run afoul of IRS(even if no evil has been committed) or other agencies may suddenly lose their bank accounts and credit cards and lose all means with which to conduct business.

So even if you are skeptical of “prottie” conspiracies, there are real life despots that don’t like web sites like FR and people like you and me who would really like us under their thumbs. They do plan to try to use social media and commerce to impress their views on what societal order should be. Oh they don’t necessarily want us dead right away...they want us humiliated and begging for their favor first!

[ealgeone]

>>Still wanna say He's not your personal Lord and Savior?<<

I never said that. I pointed out that phrase didn't appear in the New Testament as such.

A number of your fellow Roman Catholics though have echoed your down-playing of a "personal Lord and Savior."

And instead of admitting, oops, you're right; but the concept is congruent with Scripture -- you lied through your teeth about me and about Catholics.

Oh, please. There have been zero lies.

Roman Catholics on these forums are some of the thinnest skinned snowflakes I've ever encountered.

[ealgeone]

One of the people there literally said to beware, the next step was going to be an ad with someone holding out their hand with 666 on it, "There's a new and easy way to pay your bills."

...still hasn't happened yet.

Not yet....but it will.

And I am afraid a great number of Roman Catholics will fall for it. A good number have already fallen for the lies of the apparitions promising the avoidance of the eternal fire for wearing a man-made piece of cloth.

[grey_whiskers]

Your lies include that I don't know the Scriptures (I've been reading them since 1978); and about Catholics, that they think that Jesus is going to Zap them, so they run to Mary.

Did you even bother to read the meditations on the Rosary for the Sorrowful mystery?

Or are you still in the emergency room for surgery to have your shoulder fixed from patting yourself on the back so hard?

[Mark17]

+1

[metmom]

And they ignore completely this verse in John 6 where Jesus explains to his disciples what he's talking about.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

[metmom]

Maybe Rome blindness.

Rome blind could be taken as being blind to Roman Catholicism.

[metmom]

OK, so if you're going to take passages from John 6 literally so as to claim we have to literally eat the literal flesh and blood and bone, etc of Jesus, then to be consistent in Scripture interpretation, the entire discourse needs to be taken literally.

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Means Jesus was made of wheat. He was literal bread. And by eating Him, a person never becomes hungry or thirsty ever again, literally and physically.

John 6:48-51 I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Again, meaning Jesus is made of wheat and that by eating Him a person would literally live forever.

And no spiritualizing it. That's not consistent with literal translations. If one has to literally, physically eat Jesus with the body they have now, then one should literally physically live forever in their bodies they have now.

No Catholic who takes communion would ever die a death on this planet.

Then there's this pesky verse.....

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Jesus says, wait a minute guys, I wasn't talking about LITERAL, PHYSICAL eating. That isn't going to help because the physical flesh does nothing. Spiritual life is given through the SPIRIT.

It's almost funny what Bible literalists Catholics become over one or two verses.

[ealgeone]

Your lies include that I don't know the Scriptures (I've been reading them since 1978); and about Catholics, that they think that Jesus is going to Zap them, so they run to Mary.

Did I say you don't know Scripture?

Wow, you're a sensitive one. Perhaps these open threads are not for you.

But IF you've read Scripture as you claim, you should be familiar with this aspect of Christ.

Or, maybe you're just trying to make yourself feel better in some way.

With some RCs one never knows.

Regarding the issue of RC fearing Jesus and running to Mary, I'll post the info on that when I have access to my files.

Did you even bother to read the meditations on the Rosary for the Sorrowful mystery?

Yes I read it. Mixing falsehood with truth is still falsehood which is what the rosary is.

Or are you still in the emergency room for surgery to have your shoulder fixed from patting yourself on the back so hard?

Dude...please.

You're not even in the game.

[metmom]

John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

That very verse came to mind for me as well.

And it states that receiving = believing.

[metmom]

The phrase “Mary is an addition channel of Grace.” does not appear ANYWHERE in Scripture.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Mary is an addition channel of Grace. NOT the source (the factory); but a “factory authorized dealer”.”

Chapter and verse that teaches this?

[ealgeone]

The phrase “Mary is an addition channel of Grace.” does not appear ANYWHERE in Scripture.

Not only that it is in clear contradiction of Scripture.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“One of the people there literally said to beware, the next step was going to be an ad with someone holding out their hand with 666 on it, “There’s a new and easy way to pay your bills.”

...still hasn’t happened yet.”

.....

Hmmmm....

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/tech-company-workers-agree-microchips-implanted-hands/story?id=48818529

(2 years ago, the technology was available and being implemented. Is that the mark? Maybe or maybe not. It is feasible.)

[Mark17]

And it states that receiving = believing.

The word trinity does not appear in the Bible, rapture doesn’t appear in the Bible. In fact, the word Bible, does not appear in the Bible. The concepts do. I personally, do not use the term “accepting Christ.” I prefer to use the term “born again from above.” I just don’t get into these little word games. I don’t care what the meaning of the word “is” is. I will leave that to the false religionists. 😁

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“And I am afraid a great number of Roman Catholics will fall for it.”

It is likely their leaders, cooperating with the antichrist, will tell them to do it.