Posted on 08/01/2019 9:03:46 AM PDT by Salvation
For many years, the image I had of St. Paul was that of a bold evangelist who went from town to town teaching and preaching powerfully about Christ. I envisioned his audience mesmerized as he preached and took on his opponents.
I ultimately altered my view a bit based on scriptural descriptions, some of which we are currently reading in the Office of Readings. I have no doubt that he was a brilliant theologian. Paul was reputed to have been one of the greatest students of one of the greatest rabbis of the time, Gamaliel (Acts 22:3). I also do not question his zeal for Christ, and I can picture that fervor reflected on his face as he preached and taught. However, it would seem that Paul was not in fact recognized as a particularly gifted preacher. Consider the following texts from Scripture:
The key element to glean from this passage is that people regarded Paul as rather humble in person but in contrast quite bold and assertive in his letters. This does not paint the picture of a bold, fearsome preacher.
Here is even clearer evidence that some (though surely not all or even most) thought of Paul’s presence and preaching as weak and of no account. The Greek phrase λόγος ἐξουθενημένος (logos exouthenhmenos), translated here as “speech contemptible,” can also be translated as “words or speech of no account,” or “words or speech to be despised.” Of course, because Paul himself is reporting this, he may well be exaggerating the perception of his preaching out of a kind of humility. However, this is further evidence that Paul may not have been a highly gifted or bold preacher, at least from a worldly perspective.
The identity of the “superapostles” is debated, but there is wide agreement that it does not refer to the twelve apostles chosen by Christ. Rather, Paul is likely alluding to itinerant preachers of the time, most of whom were well known for their oratorical skills. Some of them may have been Judaizers who opposed Paul, but it would seem that they could draw a crowd. Perhaps they are somewhat like the revivalists of today. Paul seems to acknowledge that he is not a great speaker but refuses to concede that he is inferior to anyone in knowledge of the faith.
Paul claims no “clever” oratorical skill; rather, he underscores his lack of eloquence to emphasize that the power is in the cross of Christ.
Luke describes Paul as talking “on and on.” The sermon seems to have put the young Eutychus right to sleep, and results in his falling three flights to his death. Paul runs down and raises him from the dead. (All in a night’s work, I guess!) Paul then goes back upstairs to complete the Mass. It is a humorous and touching anecdote in many ways, but it is also a story that illustrates the somewhat soporific effect of Paul’s preaching.
So, it would seem that Paul did not possess great oratorical. This is somewhat surprising given his astonishing missionary accomplishments, but we must avoid superficiality in understanding the power of God’s Word. The power is in God; the battle is His. We may prefer to listen to skilled speakers, but God can write straight with crooked lines and make a way out of no way. If God could speak through Balaam’s donkey (see Num 22:21), He can speak through us, too.
Avoiding Superficiality – As a priest, I work hard to develop my preaching skills because I think the people of God deserve this. In the end, though, none of us should ignore the fact that God can speak in and through the humblest of people and in the most unlikely circumstances. Paul may not have had the rhetorical skills we think he should have had, but he was blessed with many other gifts. He was a brilliant theologian, had amazing zeal and energy, and was committed enough to walk thousands of miles and endure horrible sufferings so that he could proclaim Christ crucified and risen. Paul was also a natural leader and one of the most fruitful evangelizers the Church has ever known. We tend to prize oratorical skill and force of personality, but there is obviously more to evangelizing effectively than eloquence and charisma.
Our culture—particularly since the advent of television, radio, and the Internet—has come to focus primarily on personal magnetism and the ability to “turn a phrase.” The ability to communicate well is surely a great gift, but there are many others as well. In valuing certain gifts over others, we risk injustice and superficiality. The Church needs all our gifts.
What gifts do you have? God can use them!
The Apostles were tied up with charitable work, which interfered with their primary responsibility, which was "the breaking of the bread, and the prayers". The diaconate was established to take care of the charitable logistics so the Apostles could focus on their primary duties.
Blindly blathering quotes without full understanding of the situation wastes both your time and mine.
Blindly blathering quotes without full understanding of the situation wastes both your time and mine.
Well, ok. Thanks for bringing such "clarity" to the conversation.
You continue to confirm my observation of many of the Roman Catholics I've encountered on these threads.
Oh yes, once more we see one of the recourses of Catholics when faced with substantial refutation, which is that they find it incomprehensible and intolerable (colored pages no less), and fail to prove even one mistake in content.
Its a vain excuse for a lack of argument Wonder Warthog, but its no wonder it was attempted.
I believe your assumptions are mistaken.
The Catholic Church is much more than RC (your abbreviation for Roman Catholic or the Latin Rite.)
For your information there at 22 rites, all Catholic. Please educate yourself.
Just where or where do you come up with this? The text one speaks of ministering the word of God, which other texts describe as preaching, and never dispensing food as spiritual nourishment, and the text in Acts 6 actually sets ministering the word of God in opposition to dispensing food.
Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. (Act 6:2-3)
And rather than pastors being charged to administer the Eucharist, and feed the flock thereby, this is nowhere what we see in the the only wholly inspired-of-God and substantive record of what the New Testament church believed (and how they understood the gospels), and nowhere in Acts thru Revelation is the means of obtaining spiritual life said or shown to be by literally physically consuming anything. In-stead, spiritual life is obtained by hearing the gospel and truly believing it. (Acts 2:38; 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13)
And it is by preaching the word of grace that pastors foster growing in grace, by receiving "the sincere milk of the word," (1 Pt. 2:2) and ingesting its "meat," (1Co. 3:2; Heb. 5:12,13) being "nourished" (1Tim. 4:6) and built up by the word, (Acts 20:32) and with feeding the flock thereby being the primary active function of pastors. (Acts 20:32)
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: (1 Peter 2:2)
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. (1 Corinthians 3:2)
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. (Acts 20:32)
If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. (1 Timothy 4:6)
If you could have handled reading what I linked to then you could have known this.
Moreover, the daily "breaking of the bread" in Acts is never actually stated or described as being the Lord's supper, though it certainly would have included that, yet eating their meat with gladness and singleness of heart" (Acts 2:46) hardly sounds like any RC Mass I served at.
Regardless of what signs and lying wonders entertain you when commanded to take the Mark, do not accept that Mark! Repeat: Do not accept the Mark of the Beast when commanded to you.
Just dismiss it then; and you won’t have to deal with it.
Can't have that!
CAll no man father.
I'm trying; but I cannot find out why 21 of then are needed; as it seems to an unlearned individual like me that just ONE would be sufficient.
Throughout the New Testament, the "..breaking of the Bread.." has meant the performance of the Mass, not the charitable distribution of food to poorer congregation members.
Find me a decently formatted version and I’ll read it. Otherwise, not.
i have, thank you, and RC - the abbreviation I use with my arthritic fingers - is not in distinction btwn Latin and Eastern Rite but for all in professed subjection to and communion with the so-called Bishop of Rome, and to be one of the Catholic rites one must be in submission to/in full communion with the Bishop of Rome the pope, despite some differences in custom and liturgical practice from Latin Catholics. And the use in history of "Roman Catholic" by popes and the Vatican herself speaks to all Catholic churches in full communion with her, but which the Eastern Orthodox are not.
From Catholic sources:
After the Eastern Schism in 1054, eastern churches no longer in union with Rome came to be known as Eastern Orthodox or simply “Orthodox Churches.” Eastern Churches that remained in union with Rome are called Eastern Catholic Churches, or often the “Eastern Church.” An easy way to remember is this: “If the name of the Eastern Church as “Orthodox” in its title, it is not in union with Rome. - https://www.avemariapress.com/engagingfaith/2016/08/what-difference-between-eastern-catholic-churches-/
Are Byzantine Catholics really Catholic? Unequivocally, YES. We are Catholics in union with the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) whom we recognize as the visible ...- http://www.epiphanybyzantinecatholic.org/faq.html
And I do not know where you get just 22 rites, for my many sources count 24 autonomous Catholic churches: One Latin Church (i.e., Western) and 23 Eastern Catholic Churches" all in full communion with the Pope in Rome. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches)
The Catholic Church is actually composed of 24 churches — one Latin (Roman), which comprises perhaps 98% of all Catholics worldwide, and 23 "Eastern" or “Oriental” churches. All recognize the authority of the papacy.. - https://www.catholicsandcultures.org/eastern-catholic-churches
Again. my use of RC overall encompasses all in professed subjection to the so-called Bishop of Rome, which (with a few exceptions to normatively requiring celibacy for priests) profess distinctive Catholic teachings that are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the OT and gospels), which is Scripture, especially Acts thru Revelation. but in distinction from Eastern Orthodox, which are held to be in schism, with irreconcilable (after 1,000 years) substantial differences , and also consider themselves to be uniquely be the one true church.
In the Nicene Creed of faith our Church is described as the "One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church": "One" because there can only be one true Church with one head Who is Christ... Each of these titles is limiting in some respects, since they define Christians belonging to particular historical or regional Churches of the Orthodox communion.. .“because it has all the proper attributes, the Orthodox Church is the living realization of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.” — http://www.antiochian.org/node/17076
Perhaps you need to educate yourself.
Find me a decently formatted version and I’ll read it. Otherwise, not.
I standardized some of the font sizes and 3 paragraph margins, however, but what is it that you are not seeing? Are you attempting a substantive debate using some mobile device or small screen? I will ping others to see what they say. Here are just 3 screen shots of of what I see:
Print is difficult to read.
The images are reduces but the pages are of size 12 (mostly Arial) fount, which should be as large as what FR uses as the default. But if that is too small, then there is a simple solution: hold down the ctrl key and tap the + key (and the - key to reduce). But again, if you are on a mobile device...try to use a desktop and modern monitor.
Compare your screed to a newspaper column. The newspaper column is designed for maximum readability. Your amateurish effort isn’t. And I’m reading it on a huge monitor, not a cell phone. Also, lose the yellow background. Learn how to break your paragraphs up. Add white space. In other words...find an editor, or learn to edit.
This MESS is reminiscent of some of the worst “run-on” unformatted postings on FR.
Which is much biased bombast in lieu of an actual argument, from a member of a church no less whose online prolix papal encyclicals are actually hard to read, some with approx. 100 word run-on sentences, 400+ word paragraphs, and up to over 25,000 words - and could use some color.
And minimum understandability most of the time.
“but a re-presentation.”
Hey roman church member do you know your own dogma and theology?
1) The Mass is Calvary continued. 2) Every Mass is worth as much as the Sacrifice of Our Lord’s Life,suffering and death. 3) Holy Mass is the most powerful atonement for your sins. 4) At the hour of death the Masses you have heard will be your greatest consolation. 5) Every Mass will go with you to Judgement and plead for pardon. - http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/general/mgraces.htm
Calvary continued that’s not a re-presentation, but a re-crucifixion every time mass is conducted.
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