Josh Harris, Author of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", Also Kisses Christianity Goodbye

PJ Media ^ | 07/27/2019 | Tyler O' Neill

[WASCWatch]

Actually, his book was not Biblical. He wasn’t a mature Christian when he wrote it, and the premise was uninformed. He have no degree in psychology or Biblical studies. IOW, he has no business giving anyone relationship advice.

Unfortunately, so many people were misled that Townsend and Cloud, authors of “Boundaries in Dating” commented on this guy, his book, and how misguided it was.

In addition to ”Boundaries in Dating”, Neil Clark Warren’s “Finding the Love of Your Life” are easily the two best books for finding a marriage partner.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"... if you find somebody willing to make an effort for you, and you are willing to make an effort in return, then you will have a good life.

What is love? IMHO, it is the willingness to make an effort, or pay a price, for the happiness and well-being of another."

That makes a ton of sense to me.

[Mrs. Don-o]

That's the paradox of the "Once saved, always saved" deal. Since quite a few do apostatize from the faith, the only recourse is to say that they never were Christian to begin with.

However, if you see a faith resume like "Accepted Jesus as my personal Savior at age 11, baptized at my own request at age 12, devoted my energies and my life to serve the Lord, re-dedicated myself to God in the midst of life's difficulties, married a faithful believing spouse, raised all our kids as Christians, then ---" in his 40's, this person leaves the Faith?

The "Once Saved" theory would force the conclusion that you can never know IF you really HAD the faith, or if you were fooling yourself all along.

I don't see how that would give anybody the claimed state of assurance.

It's a tautology anyway.

• No believer can ever apostatize.
• Josh apostatized.
• Therefore Josh was never a believer. Not a true believer.

  It's the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

  

[PapaBear3625]

I married the women who demonstrated she was willing to make an effort to keep me happy. Been happy with her for over thirty years so far.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Good job! Same deal with me and my dear husband, 30+ years married and dearer every day.

[af_vet_1981]

The "Once Saved" theory would force the conclusion that you can never know IF you really HAD the faith, or if you were fooling yourself all along.

I don't see how that would give anybody the claimed state of assurance.

It's a tautology anyway.

No believer can ever apostatize.
Josh apostatized.
Therefore Josh was never a believer. Not a true believer.
It's the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

It is cognitive dissonance, and sets the letter to the Hebrews aside. It leads to believing one is saved by believing one is saved. The apostolic way of assurance was given by the Apostle Peter

For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, virtue with knowledge, knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with devotion, devotion with mutual affection, mutual affection with love. If these are yours and increase in abundance, they will keep you from being idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone who lacks them is blind and shortsighted, forgetful of the cleansing of his past sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your call and election firm, for, in doing so, you will never stumble. For, in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.

Scriptural chapter and verse available by clicking on link

[Yaelle]

It sure was a weird vibe. I never read it but I did see the parallel to orthodox Jewish families. So I thought he might have a point. Still, why put yourself looking “cooler than you readers, see?” On the cover?

[thecodont]

I thumbed through it and put it down. I detected a tone of anger in it that turned me off.

By comparison, I liked Wendy Shalit’s (she is an Orthodox Jew as I understand) “A Return to Modesty.” Probably driving home the same point but without the bitterness.

[Yaelle]

I think A Return to Modesty is a great book. I’m not orthodox but there is a lot of benefit to having some semblance of a level of modesty that I admire about Orthodox Judaism.

[Yaelle]

Yes, we just spoke of that one, which I remember liking and which did influence me at the time. Now my favorite Orthodox rabbis would not be happy to see what I have on, but I do believe in at least the concept of tznius (modesty.)

[JLLH]

Yep. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl1bQdHfac0 from Todd Friel on the issue.

[JLLH]

Many scholars, studying the whole of Scripture, recognize that Hebrews warning passages are NOT to believers (”...but I am convinced of better things concerning you, things pertaining to salvation”. Also numerous passages dealing with God’s keeping of the elect (Biblical terminology, not mine) With all respect, 1 John 2:19, Philippians 1:6 and many others deal specifically with the fact that God keeps us and “no one” takes them out of the Father’s Hand (John 6). Todd Friel addresses this well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl1bQdHfac0 In summation, those who “discover” they aren’t saved are the ones who leave. Biblically, they never were.

[af_vet_1981]

Many scholars, studying the whole of Scripture, recognize that Hebrews warning passages are NOT to believers ...

The term believers is not even found in the KJV (the authorized Protestant translation in English for centuries); one is not saved by believing one is saved. One must have faith and endure unto the end to be saved; thus one can fall away. The Messiah warned disciples over and over again to watch (their behavior, which is based on believing and obeying). The Apostle to the Gentiles also taught that the Gentiles who were grafted into the good olive tree, would be cut off if they did not continue in God's goodness.

• For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
• And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
• If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
• For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
• But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
• But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
• For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
• And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
• That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
  
  ...
  
  
• For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
• Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them wh

Hebrews, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verses four to twelve,
Romans, Catholic chapter eleven, Protestant verses twenty one to twenty two,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
underlines mine

[JLLH]

Those Hebrews passages - again - do not refer to salvation. Matters not if the TERM is not in Scripture. It’s clear from the passages and AFTER that the author is NOT referencing those who are saved/redeemed (if you prefer). We cannot keep ourselves. Yes, we have a responsibility to follow Him. Just like we are commanded to “Repent and Believe”, although Scripture makes it clear that salvation is of the Lord and NO ONE seeks after God, no not one (Romans 3),

Philippians 1:6 shows who keeps us, as does John 6 (v. 39) and John 10:28-29 (and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 [a]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.). Romans 5 - “....having now been justified” (eternity past). Josh Harris is not more powerful than the Savior who keeps us, God be praised.

1 John 2:19 “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that [d]it would be shown that they all are not of us.”

[af_vet_1981]

Those Hebrews passages - again - do not refer to salvation. ...
We cannot keep ourselves. ...
NO ONE seeks after God, no not one...

Of course they refer to salvation. They were made partakers of the Holy Spirit. However, one must endure to the end to be saved. It is not the beginning that counts, it is the ending.

• For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
  
  ...
  
  
• But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
• Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
  
  ...
  
  
• God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
• Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
• And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
• That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
• For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Hebrews, Catholic chapter three, Protestant verse fourteen,
Jude, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses twenty to twenty one,
Acts, Catholic chapter seventeen, Protestant verses twenty four to twenty eight,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[Bob434]

thaks i’ll check that oput tomorrow