Posted on 03/30/2019 8:12:59 AM PDT by Salvation
Question: I had reason to hope my niece was going to convert to the Catholic faith. But there were so many obstacles the Church set up that discouraged her. She was asked to go to classes, and they told her that her marriage was not valid and she would need an annulment. Further, it was necessary to wait until Easter, etc. The nearby evangelical church set up no such obstacles, and she was able to join at once and be considered a member. I hear so much talk of evangelization today, but I share my niece’s frustration. Can we not streamline this process?
— Name withheld
Answer: There is a kind of appealing simplicity that you describe in many Protestant denominations. But there are problems with the approach that should give us pause. Ultimately evangelization is more about conversion than mere membership. We are summoned to embrace the saving teaching of the Lord and to walk according to it.
Because adults make informed decisions, the Church considers it important to teach them the fundamentals of the Faith so that they can know what it is they are agreeing to when they enter the Church. Although some of the Scriptures portray an almost instant, on-the-spot baptism, the consensus in the early Church shifted to a lengthy, three-year period of instruction (called the catechumenate) prior to baptism. This likely was because of the insight that quick conversions often led to quick departures or a falling away when the true demands of discipleship became known.
Instructions are most insisted upon for those who are unbaptized. In the case of those who are baptized and come from different Protestant denominations, the length and content of instructions will depend on their background. It is up to the discretion of the pastor who discerns with each individual what is needed. It is certainly not required for those already baptized to “wait until next Easter.”
The concerns about a person’s marital status are rooted in the very words and teachings of Jesus himself. He teaches without ambiguity that for a person to marry, then divorce and enter another marriage, puts them in an ongoing state of adultery in the “new” marriage (cf. Mt 5:32; Mt 19:1-9; Mk 10:11-12; Lk 16:18, etc). He adds rather firmly, “What God has joined together, let no one divide” (Mt 19:9).
It will be further noted that when the Lord was evangelizing the woman at the well, he brought her to a moment of conversion, and she asked for the gift of faith. But the Lord Jesus saw fit to first raise with her the fact that she had been married five times and was now living with a man outside of marriage. Her conversion would not be complete or adequate until she was willing to live chastely. Then the graces could flow.
For reasons of their own, many Protestant denominations have decided to practically overlook such passages. But the Catholic Church takes the Lord’s teaching on these matters rather seriously, as he clearly intended that we should. In some cases, after an investigation based on evidence, the Church may use its power to bind and loose, to indicate that the previous marriage was not “what God has joined,” and it recognizes the first marriage as null. A person’s current marriage then can be blessed and recognized. But we simply cannot set the Lord’s words aside as if they were of little importance.
Thus some conversions to the Catholic faith will take some time to be faithful to the teachings of the Lord and the nature of true conversion. It is worth the diligence required.
I’m fairly sure he won’t, mostly because we all know the answer already, but to admit it would crush his spiritual pride.
Can’t have that after all.
What's left to discuss?
The Catholic church was in full power when Acts 15 was written.
Also when the 7 churches were mentioned in Revelation 1-3.
Why do you Hate Mary so??
Besides the Indulgences attached to the Rosary, Our Lady revealed to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche additional benefits for those who devoutly pray the Rosary.
Our Lady's promise is shown in bold, darker blue text. Additional explanation on and doctrinal connections to each promise is shown following in the smaller normal text font and color.
Note that the Rosary is the prayer (non-Liturgical) with the most published Magisterial / Papal documents expounding on its excellence.
Vatican II's summary on Our Lady is contained in Lumen Gentium chapter VIII.
| 1. | Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces. Signal Graces are those special and unique Graces to help sanctify us in our state in life. See the remaining promises for an explanation for which these will consist. St. Louis de Montfort states emphatically that the best and fastest way to union with Our Lord is via Our Lady [True Devotion to Mary, chapter four]. |
| 2. | I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary. Our Lady is our Advocate and the channel of all God's Grace to us. Our Lady is simply highlighting that She will watch especially over us who pray the Rosary. (see Lumen Gentium chapter VIII - Our Lady #62) [a great more detail is available on this topic in True Devotion to Mary, chapter four, by St. Louis de Montfort] |
| 3. | The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies. This promise, along with the next, is simply the reminder on how fervent prayer will help us all grow in holiness by avoiding sin, especially a prayer with the excellence of the Rosary. An increase in holiness necessarily requires a reduction in sin, vice, and doctrinal errors (heresies). If only the Modernists could be convinced to pray the Rosary! (see Lumen Gentium chapter V - The Call to Holiness #42) St. Louis de Montfort states "Since Mary alone crushed all heresies, as we are told by the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary)..." [True Devotion to Mary #167] |
| 4. | It will cause good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for Eternal Things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. This promise, along with the previous, is the positive part, that being to live in virtue. Becoming holy is not only avoiding sin, but also growing in virtue. (see Lumen Gentium chapter V - The Call to Holiness #42) |
| 5. | The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish. Since Our Lady is our Mother and Advocate, She always assists those who call on Her implicitly by praying the Rosary. The Church reminds us of this in the Memorare prayer, "... never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help or sought your intercession, was left unaided ..." |
| 6. | Whosoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of Eternal Life. This promise highlights the magnitude of Graces that the Rosary brings to whomever prays it. One will draw down God's Mercy rather than His Justice and will have a final chance to repent (see promise #7). One will not be conquered by misfortune means that Our Lady will obtain for the person sufficient Graces to handle said misfortune (i.e. carry the Crosses allowed by God) without falling into despair. As Sacred Scripture tells us, "For my yoke is sweet and my burden light." (Matthew 11:30) |
| 7. | Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church. This promise highlights the benefits of obtaining the most possible Graces at the hour of death via the Sacraments of Confession, Eucharist, and Extreme Unction (Anointing of the Sick). Being properly disposed while receiving these Sacraments near death ensures one's salvation (although perhaps with a detour through Purgatory) since a final repentance is possible. |
| 8. | Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the Light of God and the plenitude of His Graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the Merits of the Saints in Paradise. Our Lady highlights the great quantity of Graces obtain through praying the Rosary, which assist us during life and at the moment of death. The merits of the Saints are the gift of God's rewards to those persons who responded to His Grace that they obtained during life, and so Our Lady indicates that She will provide a share of that to us at death. With this promise and #7 above, Our Lady is providing the means for the person to have a very holy death. |
| 9. | I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. Should one require Purgatorial cleansing after death, Our Lady will make a special effort to obtain our release from Purgatory through Her intercession as Advocate. |
| 10. | The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of Glory in Heaven. This promise is a logical consequence of promises #3 and #4 since anyone who truly lives a holier life on earth will obtain a higher place in Heaven. The closer one is to God while living on earth, the close that person is to Him also in Heaven. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states "Spiritual progress tends toward ever more union with Christ." (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 2014) |
| 11. | You shall obtain all you ask of me by recitation of the Rosary. This promise emphasizes Our Lady's role as our Advocate and Mediatrix of all Graces. Of course, all requests are subject to God's Most Perfect Will. God will always grant our request if it is beneficial for our soul, and Our Lady will only intercede for us when our request is good for our salvation. (see Lumen Gentium chapter VIII - Our Lady #62) |
| 12. | All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. If one promotes the praying of the Rosary, Our Lady emphasizes Her Maternal care for us by obtaining many Graces (i.e. spiritual necessities) and also material necessities (neither excess nor luxury), all subject to the Will of God of course. |
| 13. | I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death. Since Our Lady is our Advocate, She brings us additional assistance during our life and at our death from all the saints in Heaven (the Communion of Saints). See paragraphs 954 through 959 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. |
| 14. | All who recite the Rosary are my Sons, and brothers of my Only Son Jesus Christ. Since the Rosary is a most excellent prayer focused on Jesus and His Life and activities in salvation history, it brings us closer to Our Lord and Our Lady. Doctrinally, Our Lady is our Mother and Jesus is our Eldest Brother, besides being our God. (see Lumen Gentium chapter VIII - Our Lady #62) |
| 15. | Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination. Predestination in this context means that, by the sign which is present to a person from the action of devoutly praying the Rosary, God has pre-ordained your salvation. Absolute certainty of salvation can only be truly known if God reveals it to a person because, although we are given sufficient Grace during life, our salvation depends upon our response to said Grace. (See Summa Theologica, Question 23 for a detailed theological explanation). Said another way, if God has guaranteed a person's salvation but has not revealed it to Him, God would want that person to pray the Rosary because of all the benefits and Graces obtained. Therefore the person gets a hint by devotion to the Rosary. This is not to say that praying the Rosary guarantees salvation - by no means. In looking at promises #3 and #4 above, praying the Rosary helps one to live a holy life, which is itself a great sign that a soul is on the road to salvation. (See also paragraphs 381, 488, 600, 2782 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.) In fact, St. Louis de Montfort says even more strongly that "an infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God's true friends is that the hardened sinner and heretic show nothing but contempt and indifference to Our Lady..." [True Devotion to Mary, #30] |
Reminder: these promises mean that, by faithfully and devoutly praying the Rosary,
Our Lady will obtain for us the necessary Graces to obtain said promises.
It is still up to each individual soul to respond to those Graces in order to obtain salvation.
Which is an absurd if comforting delusion. For one, where did the Lord ever example or teach praying to created beings in Heaven? Never in the gospels, not in Acts and the epistles which reveal how they understood the gospels.
Not in the whole of Scripture, despite the Spirit inspiring the recording of over 200 prayers , and of this being a most basic practice, and despite there always being plenty of created beings to pray to, and occasions for it since the Fall, yet the only prayers or offerings in Scripture to anyone else in the unseen spiritual heaven is by pagans, including to the only Queen of Heaven seen in Scripture.
Failing to find even one example of PTCBIH, and with instruction on who to address in prayer to Heaven only being that of to the Lord, Caths must resort to eisegetical extrapolation, presuming those in Heaven can not only hear/understand all prayers from earth, mental or oral (which only God is shown able to do), but that we are to address them, though again the Holy Spirit never mentions even one example of doing so.
Meanwhile, from what I recall, any two-way communication btwn created beings in Heaven and earth required both to somehow be present in the same location, and was not that of asking them to intercede to God for them, and was very rare.
Note that elders and angels offering prayers (Rv. 5:8; 8:4,5) in memorial - like as in Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15; 16:9, "an offering of memorial" cf. Num. 16:9, - is not that of them being addressed in prayer, nor does it indicate that they had heard them previously, nor is it described as being a regular postal service, but it is one of the things which is a preclude to the final judgments upon the earth, testifying to the persecutions of the saints by the devil and world that it fit to be punished.
For when "He maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble. (Psalms 9:12; cf. Genesis 4:10) and before judgment God brings forth testimony of the warrant for it, which includes the cry of those martyred souls under the altar in Rv. 6:9, and with odors representing prayer, akin to Leviticus 6:15, "burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour, even the memorial of it, unto the Lord." (Leviticus 6:15)
Note, do not attempt the sophistry of arguing "nowhere is it forbidden," or extrapolating it out of prayer for each other here, or that "with God all things are possible" which are all specious arguments for a most basic Cath practice that surely would be exampled and taught in Scripture if indeed it was what believers believed in.
And the list goes on .
you don't say...
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."
--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)
To clarify: You have shown praying over the sick, yes, anointing the sick, yes, preaching and teaching, yes.
But the Roman Catholic definition of being the sole inheritors of Apostolic authority to the exclusion of all others, including those who follow Apostolic teaching but who are not Roman Catholic?
No, you have not shown this, even with your citations.
Are you watching??
This has been going on under *at least* 4 popes!
The gates of homosexuality are wide open in Rome.
Gays are known, allowed, protected.
You may be wrong on the percentage.
Yes, it could actually be higher. I am just giving the range from several researchers who know.
How does it benefit to spread false witness or facts if you do not have knowledge?
I list what is reported. You did not contradict it with any evidence. I assume you do not have it, or know it is equal or worse. It is not a homosexual religion.
It is the world's most gay religion. Same difference.
Catholics want the Truth to be known and solve the problem.
It does not appear the leadership wants this.
Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as “presbyters” or “elders.”
Not in the New Testament. There are no priests in the Church in Scripture. There are elders and deacons.
In fact, the English term “priest” is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros.
No friend. A "priest", carrying out all that Rome instructs, is foreign to the New Testament church offices. It doesn't appear in Scripture.
In fact, every believer in Christ is a priest.
This is gonna be a rich thread for ya, old man.
Have fun!
How you figure this out; by reading the press releases from Rome?
And yet we have SO many that FR Catholics claim are poorly catechized.
The same time you became protestant, considering how much you love protesting against the saints and early church fathers and their teachings of salvation by grace through faith and without works.
Who are you to think that YOUR personal interpretation of Scripture is superior to St. Clement of Rome, aka the man you claim to be your second Pope?
Why are you attacking me for believing the same thing as St. Augustine about salvation, especially since he’s still a saint?
Pride is a sin, ebb. Just saying.
It’s so much fun living rent free in your head, ebb.
I see that you can quote scripture, but you didn’t prove anything.
Please be specific on which teaching and explain how the Catholic Church erred.
On your other posting Luther was excommunicated. Specific quotes from early Christians is not always the teaching of the Catholic Church. Specific quotes may be taken out of context.
The knowledge you seek is in the Bible.
Do NOT let a Catholic try to hang the albatross of Sola Scriptura around your neck!
Acts 17-18 New International Version (NIV)
1 When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead.
10 As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.
16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.
chapter 18
4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.
9 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. 10 For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city.” 11 So Paul stayed in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
12 While Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews of Corinth made a united attack on Paul and brought him to the place of judgment. 13 “This man,” they charged, “is persuading the people to worship God in ways contrary to the law.”
27 When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers and sisters encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed. 28 For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.
Murdering me in your heart again, are you ebb?
Wrath is a sin. Just saying.
above ^
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