A rendering of the Diocese of Orange's Our Lady of La Vang Shrine. Image courtesy of Torrence Architects
Posted on 11/25/2018 7:06:58 AM PST by marshmallow
A rendering of the Diocese of Orange's Our Lady of La Vang Shrine. Image courtesy of Torrence Architects
GARDEN GROVE, Calif. (RNS) — Like most Vietnamese-American Catholics, Elysabeth Nguyen grew up hearing stories of Our Lady of La Vang, who is said to have saved her people from persecution.
The Marian apparition is said to have appeared in the late 1700s to a group of Catholics fleeing persecution in Vietnam. She then became a centerpiece of Catholic faith in the country, and after the fall of Saigon in 1975 — when more than a million Vietnamese became refugees — her intercession was credited with sparing the lives of her devotees. Churches named for the La Vang virgin are now thought to be as numerous in the United States as those dedicated to the apparitions at Fatima or Lourdes.
Now Nguyen and a group of Vietnamese-American Catholics in Orange County, Calif., home to the largest Vietnamese Catholic community outside Vietnam, are leading the development of the United States’ first major stand-alone shrine to Our Lady of La Vang.
The multi-million-dollar shrine, located at the Catholic Diocese of Orange’s Christ Cathedral in Garden Grove, will offer the 100,000 Vietnamese-American Catholics in the diocese a gathering place and, its builders expect, an international pilgrimage site. The diocese broke ground on the project in October.
“To have a shrine here reminds them of the homeland, of how grateful they are to be here, and the fruits and blessings they’ve had since coming to this country,” said Nguyen, project manager for the La Vang Shrine Committee with the Diocese of Orange.
(Excerpt) Read more at religionnews.com ...
Not even once. You honestly seem to think posting pictures of people with statues is the same thing as posting evidence of idolatry. You have never once posted any evidence of any Catholic actually worshiping a statue.
Now, if you act as you always have, you’ll post a whole string of photos of say, Pope John Paul II kneeling in front of a statue and praying. But he wasn’t worshipping the statue nor was he praying to the statue. But that won’t stop you. Truth seems to be irrelevant to you.
Yet you admit that one time you wore the Scapular....so you believed the false promises of the apparition.
Yes...the photos are clear of Roman Catholics bowing before idols of Mary. That you want to continue to deny what is happening is understandable.
when I was kid many moons ago, I asked the question at catholic boarding school. What am i praying to Our Lady of the Mountains statue. Answer. She is in heaven. You are praying she will i intercede with you in support of your prayers to God.
I always thought that was the deal.
I always thought that was the deal.
Understandable.
Roman Catholics have been wrongly taught that Mary's prayers are somehow more effective than a mere mortal's prayers.
This is in contradiction of the New Testament.
However, in the NT all prayer is directed to God. We can go straight to Him and He will answer our prayers.
4Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! 5Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. 6Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:4-7 NASB
13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. 1 John 5:13-15 NASB
No. We are not to put the Lord to the test.
I never saw it as more effective just extra help
I am not much of an intellectual religious person. But it would seem if someone says they are not praying to the statue you might take their word for it.
Actually, I love bacon.
About the only food I don't like is real spicy food....just can't handle it.
Just wait until you disagree with vlad....you ain't seen nothing yet.
My guess is he keeps a sharpened axe in his house to chop up Catholic altars.
Actually, there is a segment of Roman Catholicism that would do just that to non-Roman Catholics if they could. The Office of the Inquisition is still around...it's just under another name.
Actually, it is Roman Catholicism that re-defines words to make allowance for their false doctrines. If you honestly study the topic you will discover it for yourself.
Not even close.
If you study what the apparitions have said in their various appearances you will quickly see their message is a false one.
Whether they're praying to it or not is not the primary issue.....though it is an important one.
If one is kneeling before a statue they are showing subservience to it.....it is an act of worship.
It has come before Christ. No where in the NT do believers kneel before anyone or anything.
In Revelation we have this encounter between John and an angel...bolded emphasis mine :
8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.” Revelation 22:8-9 NASB
as I said, I am not going to study anything. I’m out.
Have a good day.
thanx for being respectful Good day
SMAK
Classic and very old-school put down. Nice burn.
Now you have to explain to everyone else just the heck is a ‘round head’. Extra points for a history lesson on Oliver....
annnnnd GO!
Give it a rest - and I'm not even fr the area.
You don’t think it’s pretty?
“And we no longer have a Temple.”
But we still have statues. And we STILL don’t worship them.
“But no where were the Jews ever commanded to bow before or pray to the statues that were in the Temple.”
And we aren’t commanded to bow before them or pray to them either. And we don’t pray to statues at all. Your entire view of this is built on your false premise.
“Throughout the Bible they were instructed to NOT bow before or pray to idols.”
Again, we are not commanded to bow to statues or to pray to them and we don’t pray to them at all. We have no idols. I don’t bow to statues either.
“Same for non-Jews. We are to avoid idolatry.”
And I do. I worship only God. I’ve never worshiped anything or anyone else.
“Roman Catholicism on the other hand does teach its adherents to do just that...worship idols....and to rely upon the apparition to avoid the hell fire by the wearing of a piece of cloth.”
Actually Catholicism NEVER teaches idolatry. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm
“Why did you stop?”
Two reasons: 1) I was only going to wear it for a short time, 2) a skin disease made it uncomfortable and I did not want to exacerbate the effects of that disease.
“These apparitions all claim to be Mary under various names. All are false in their message.”
Your opinion - which you have shown in the past to be grossly misinformed on every spiritual subject - doesn’t really matter.
“Yet you admit that one time you wore the Scapular....so you believed the false promises of the apparition.”
1) I said I wore a scapular.
2) I never said I wore “the Scapular”.
3) You apparently don’t know that there are different kinds of scapulars and they are worn for different reasons.
4) There was no long list of promises attached to the scapular I wore. There was only one - that it would aid in conversion. The mere physical presence of it aided my conversion because it reminded me to pray, to give thanks to God, to study, to think of the needs of others, and so on.
“Yes...the photos are clear of Roman Catholics bowing before idols of Mary.”
We have no idols of Mary. We have statues. We don’t worship any of them. We don’t pray to any of them.
“That you want to continue to deny what is happening is understandable.”
I don’t deny anything that is true. You simply continue to post what is false - and others here who aren’t even Catholic know you’re posting what is false.
“Just wait until you disagree with vlad....you ain’t seen nothing yet.”
I debate with tenacity. That’s true. What I don’t do is lie. Maybe one day anti-Catholics here will be able to say the same? Maybe.
“Actually, there is a segment of Roman Catholicism that would do just that to non-Roman Catholics if they could. The Office of the Inquisition is still around...it’s just under another name.”
I’ve always said that anti-Catholics live in a paranoid twilight world. I think you’re proving that for me.
It’s not idolatry in that the subject of the church, statue, etc. isn’t herself worshipped, and she’s not. Saints are viewed as vehicles of intercession for communicating prayers to God from those who recognize their saintliness, which has been proven through Church mandated protocols. So please don’t confuse statues and churches with the soon-to-be idols and church/library the obamassiah.
I do. But kinda modern art style.
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