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Communion of Saints
OSV.com ^
| 11-07-18
| Msgr. Charles Pope
Posted on 11/17/2018 10:08:09 AM PST by Salvation
Communion of Saints
United with Christ, the saints probably look upon earthly events from a more eternal perspective
Msgr. Charles Pope
Do the saints in heaven see and know all that we are doing? If so, do they have disappointment or sorrow when they see us sinning? — William Duncan, via email
We are in the realm of speculative theology, and thus, precise answers to such questions are not possible. However, reasoning from Scripture, it does seem that the saints have some general awareness of the situation on earth and pray. Revelation 8:4 speaks of the prayers of the saints ascending like incense before God. Revelation 6:10 also shows the souls of the martyrs beneath the altar in heaven asking God how much longer before he avenged their blood. This presumes some knowledge by them that injustice and resistance to the Faith still prevails on earth. These texts are debated, but tradition has allowed an interpretation that includes knowledge by the saints of heaven about the conditions on earth.
Your question asks about detailed knowledge of very personal aspects of peoples’ lives. To some degree we must conclude that the saints in heaven know only what God permits them to know and see. There is no purely human capacity to see hidden things beyond what our senses and awareness can supply. Thus, if the saints do “see” us, it is only as members of the Body of Christ.
Consider an analogy. My right hand can work with my left in accomplishing a task, but not because each hand has a separate set of eyes or other cognitive abilities. Rather, they work together through the head of my body, my brain and will. They “know” what to do, but not independently of the head.
It is likely this way with the ability of the saints to know or see things on earth. They know what they know, and only what they need to know, through the head of the body, Christ. While it is true that saints, as persons, are not simply mindless extensions of the Body of Christ, it does not follow that they become all-seeing or all-knowing either. Just as my hand does not need detailed “knowledge” about what is going on in my kidneys, it does not follow that my deceased grandmother needs detailed knowledge about every specific thing I do.
As for disappointments experienced by the saints when we do something bad, even if they do know, they likely also know what the end will be since they will have a more eternal perspective. They would not perceive our lives like a movie. If they see our lives through Christ the head, as they must, they also would know how our actions fit into our last end. Thus, disappointment seems difficult when one knows more comprehensively through Christ as to the final outcomes.
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; saints
**We are in the realm of speculative theology, and thus, precise answers to such questions are not possible. **
**To some degree we must conclude that the saints in heaven know only what God permits them to know and see.**
1
posted on
11/17/2018 10:08:09 AM PST
by
Salvation
To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...
Monsignor Pope Ping for OSV column.
2
posted on
11/17/2018 10:09:22 AM PST
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: Salvation
The inexorable logic of this is that prayers to saints in heaven are ineffective—as we do not know what God allows them to hear or not....
Besides, if you have to go through God, for the saints to hear (since they are not all-knowing) why would you then ask God to ask the saints to ask God about you, when of course, through God the Son, you can ask God directly
?
3
posted on
11/17/2018 11:11:47 AM PST
by
AnalogReigns
(Real life is ANALOG...)
To: AnalogReigns
That statement is false.
Otherwise how do people asking saints for assistance receive cures? You do realize that those requests are always passed on to Jesus Christ and the Father and the Holy Spirit, don’t you?
4
posted on
11/17/2018 11:33:11 AM PST
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: Salvation
Arch pope really doesnt undersand the Scriptures... sigh.
To: Salvation
You do realize that those requests are always passed on to Jesus Christ and the Father and the Holy Spirit, dont you?
Otis. Made up out of wishogesis. Never in Scripture.
To: Salvation
During the past year, I have been blessed with visitations from three saintly beings. Each was a gift of grace. I was completely surprised by all.
Each appeared to me in a vision only once, but each has continued to guide me.
Each communicated to me extraverbally--I think; at least, I did not hear words as sounds.
Each appeared to me, suddenly and unexpectedly, in a dream--but what a vivid, brilliantly illuminated, realistic dream, more realistic, in fact, than awake reality and the senses of vision, hearing, touch, etc.
Each time, I knew immediately that this was not an ordinary dream and that each was a highly evolved, saintly being who was contacting me because of love, admiration, and respect for me, for my guidance and reassurance, and, to be honest, I was surprised to learn that any one of them was saintly.
One of the great lessons is that I do not--and perhaps we do not-- know who among us is a saint. These three were certainly unrecognized in this life.
1. The first was my great grandmother, whom I never knew. She died about 40 years before I was born.She told me that she had always loved me and that, in many ways, I was very much like her.
I felt her presence for an entire day and also thereafter.
2. The second was a girl I knew, though not well, in high school and junior high.
3. The third was a relative whom I intensely disliked before she died, probably of a drug overdose.
As she appeared to me, I felt a sense of dread at seeing her again.
However, when I looked at her and spoke her name, I cupped her face in my hands and could only say: "You are beautiful." She was.
Her presence was powerful.
She has stayed with me the longest and most vividly.
She told me that when she was in this life, her problems overwhelmed her. I already knew that, but I could remember glimpses of her saintliness.
She told me that she had completely misjudged me and that it was only when she reached the high realms and could see me as I really am that she realized my enormous worth, how full of love and goodness I am, how I wanted to love and help her and be a loving friend to her when she was in this life, and how she loves, admires, and respects me now.
She gave me much to look forward to, in this life and the next.
She has guided me and helped me.
I love her.
I adore her.
These experiences have taught me that saintly beings can and do know what's going on with us, in part anyway; that they can see what's in our hearts; that their ability to come to us, speak to us, and guide us depends mostly on our ability to open our hearts to truth, love, and acceptance; that the afterlife is far more vivid, alive, and full of joy, love, and fascination that the world of the senses; and much more.
7
posted on
11/17/2018 2:11:45 PM PST
by
Savage Beast
(Trump is by far the intellectual, moral, and spiritual superior of those who seek to destroy him.)
To: Savage Beast; Salvation
I cant claim any visits from saintly brings but several of my prayers have been answered in the aftermath of my wifes death. Of course, I would prefer that she not have been sick or died but this evidently was a Gods will. A couple of my prayer requests were answered right after I made them (minutes). Hard for me to believe these were coincidence or good luck without Gods intercession (with the saints).
8
posted on
11/17/2018 2:19:13 PM PST
by
steve86
(Prophecies of Maelmhaedhoc O'Morgair (Latin form: Malachy))
To: steve86
I’m looking forward to the life to come and to reunions with those we love. The visions that I described were so vivid and alive and so beautiful that they made me excited even more about what’s to come.
9
posted on
11/17/2018 4:01:26 PM PST
by
Savage Beast
(Trump is by far the intellectual, moral, and spiritual superior of those who seek to destroy him.)
To: Salvation
From “The Presence” by Lutheran Pastor Berthold Von Schenk:
We must come to a sense of the continuing presence of our loved ones, and we can do this if we realize the presence of our Living Lord. As we seek and find our Risen Lord we shall find our dear departed. They are with Him, and we find the reality of their continued life through Him.
The saints are part of the Church. We worship with them. They worship the Risen Christ face to face, which we worship the same Risen Christ under the veil of bread and wine at the Altar.
At the Communion we are linked with Heaven, with the Communion of Saints, with our loved ones. Here at the Altar, focused to a point, we find our communion with the dead; for the Altar is the closest meeting place between us and our Lord. That place must be the place of closest meeting with our dead who are in His keeping
10
posted on
11/17/2018 8:13:46 PM PST
by
lightman
(Obama's legacy in 13 letters: BLM, ISIS, & ANTIFA. New axis of evil.)
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