Christian, What Do You Believe? Probably a Heresy About Jesus, Says Survey

Christianity Today ^ | 10/23/2018 | Jeremy Webber

[SeekAndFind]

American evangelicals are “deeply confused” about some core doctrines of the Christian faith—and the fourth-century heretic Arius would be pleased, according to a new survey.

For the third time, Ligonier Ministries has examined the State of Theology in the United States, conducted by LifeWay Research and based on interviews with 3,000 Americans. The survey, also conducted in 2014 and 2016, offers a detailed look at the favorite heresies of evangelicals and of Americans at large.

Ligonier wanted to know what Americans “believe about God, salvation, ethics, and the Bible.”

“Overall, US adults appear to have a superficial attachment to well-known Christian beliefs,” stated the ministry. “For example, a majority agreed that Jesus died on the cross for sin and that he rose from the dead.

“However, they rejected the Bible’s teaching on (1) the gravity of man’s sin, (2) the importance of the church’s gathering together for worship, and (3) the Holy Spirit,” stated Ligonier. For example:

• More than two-thirds (69%) of Americans disagree that the smallest sin deserves eternal damnation—and 58 percent strongly disagree. Ligonier finds this “alarming.”
• A majority of US adults (58%) said that worshiping alone or with one’s family is a valid replacement for regularly attending church. Only 30 percent disagree.
• A majority of US adults (59%) say that the Holy Spirit is a force, not a personal being.

Ligonier cites relativism for such a “casual outlook.” In the survey, 6 in 10 Americans agree that “religious belief is a matter of personal opinion [and] not about objective truth”—and 1 in 3 evangelicals (32%) say the same.

[metmom]

Confusion is caused by contradiction and error in the bible.

Agreed that there are no contradictions in the Bible.

You're sure you've never been here before?

I notice you never answered that question.

[lurk]

Jesus refers to Him as He.

[NoCmpromiz]

So..

What makes you a Christian?

Your expressed belief is definitely Modalist by the way. That does put you in the same camp as the Oneness Pentecostals whether you choose to embrace that description of your theology or not.

And by the way it’s “persons” not “people”. You seem to have a problem grasping the concept.

[heterosupremacist]

caww wrote:

>>>How can you not see the personhood of our triune God is the real question.

The Holy Spirit is not some extra-terrestrial creature that zooms in on people.

I do have another question though....are you a Jehovah Witness? I ask because that would explain your position.<<<

The thing that MUST be accepted by faith/reason/ is an admittedly difficult theological concept ~ The Word!

The teaching of three, ineffable, metaphysical, [separate, but united] hypostatic beings ~ immortal, omnipotent, omniscient, and ultimately/equally consubstantial with each other; as what Our Most Holy and Living God is - may be the most difficult mystery of the faith for the uncatechized to comprehend.

Saint Patrick of Ireland explained this difficult theological concept to his illiterate flock by using a simple shamrock leaf. They understood.

Witnesses’ that I know personally believe in what I call the ‘Dynamic Duo’, but do not acknowledge the Triune Nature of Almighty God.

Just an observation [hold your fire!]

[free_life]

I have taught God has two questions for each person he creates.

1) Do you want me and my gift of salvation?

2) How much of me do you want? (There is no limit in this relationship on God’s part.)

I always keep in mind how much mammon is worshiped in the church and remember Jesus’ prophecy in Matt 25. The judgment of Christians is not how much faith we have, how much we prayed or read the bible, or how many we witnessed Christ too. We are judged on what we did or did not do for the least of these...the hungry, sick, imprisoned, the stranger and the naked...the poor among us. There will be no excuses to save the goats and the church has lots of goats, just like the rich religious man and Lazarus at his gate...his religion didn’t save because God didn’t own his heart.

[heterosupremacist]

You are speaking of what Catholics call the ‘hypostatic union’ - Jesus WAS both fully human AND fully divine.

[Iscool]

That is not a “person.”

That is a Spirit.

The Holy Spirit has absolutely every attribute of a human being except for the outer shell which we call the body...If you analyze every aspect of the words translated into 'person' in the scriptures, the Holy Spirit is clearly a person, as well as the Father...

Perhaps you are trying to claim the Holy Spirit is not a human, and that would be correct...However, Jesus gave up his terrestrial (human) body and exchanged it for a celestial body, as happens to us when we die...Is Jesus no longer a person???

[caww]

.......”I think we can get a bit lost in trying to completely understand the Trinity. We CAN learn a lot about it - but I imagine at a certain point it ends up a “mystery” for our feeble minds”.......

I suppose the save would be said of creation as well....people sure like to split hairs about that as well. Though of course it is by faith that we ‘believe’ in Gods creation acts......as is written in Hebrews....”By faith we understand that the universe was formed by God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.”

So... perhaps one who doesn’t see the ‘evidence’ of the personhood of the Trinity clearly then it’s a matter of faith ‘believing’ or not.

[Iscool]

God is God. He’s not a “person,” either. Just because you see yourself as a person, it doesn’t mean God is.

We all have a body, a soul and a spirit...Which one of those things is the person???

[ConservativeMind]

The Bible does not support calling them “persons” or “people.” I have no problem with calling them all “God” in different forms.

This, in no way, is an issue with salvation or understanding God, except the Bible supports me over you.

[ConservativeMind]

Our souls are not “people.” They are “souls,” as in “ConservativeMind’s soul.”

[caww]

I am not catechized in the catholic faith and would not see that as necessary for one to comprehend ‘the 3rd ‘person’ of the Trinity’, which the Holy Spirit is commonly identified and referred to as within the Christian community.

I agree that accepting Gods Word is desirable in our understanding...yet with this recognizing that it is His very written word which brings faith...to believe..... “Faith comes by hearing ad hearing the word of God”

Therefore it would appear ones willingness to read and hear His written word is key to comprehending and understanding the 3rd person of the Holy Spirit....since He is the great ‘teacher’ of that which He himself has ‘authored’....

I can readily admit there are may times as I study and read that I know He is presenting His words in such a way as that of opening my ‘limited’ understanding and comprehension.......the very fact that it is beyond my level of education and understanding ‘evidences’ He is there and revealing as a person might sitting with me and teaching along side.

[caww]

But we are three persons ourselves....Triune beings.....Body Soul and Spirit....so it is not difficult to grasp God as 3 persons of the Godhead.

Additionally.........I am a women....a mother....and once a wife......three defined differences yet one ‘person’.

Just as God is in the Trinity yet one.

[caww]

Ok....then define who God is to you....’person’ally.....but wouldn’t that reveal a ‘person’-al relationship also?

[reed13k]

It’s helpful. Still confusing that the one is three especially when one sits on the right hand of the other (Hebrews/Acts). The scriptures give us descriptions to ‘help’ us, but can instead confuse sometimes. To me sitting at the right hand means two separate entities.

I Try to look at it this way. There is one GOD with 3 methods of manifesting - not 3 entities, but ONE manifesting in different ways.
Only the Father manifestation has the ability to look outside of time - which is why the Son says only the Father knows the time in Matthew.
The Son manifests within time in a human physical form currently in Heaven, but also on Earth.
The Holy Spirit manifests on Earth within time.
When the Son was on Earth he was purposely limited to fulfill part of the requirements to make him an appropriate sacrifice for our sins at least until he was baptized with the Holy Spirit and completed the Transfiguration.

Now how the ONE can also be the 3...well that’s beyond my paygrade and where Faith comes in. But with GOD all things are possible....Who knows there may be even more manifestations that we aren’t privy to because HE decided it wasn’t necessary to tell us and we couldn’t begin to comprehend anyway.

Which manifestation actually wrestled with Israel to give him his new name?

[HarleyD]

Christianity is understanding where we fall short of God's grace. Once we understand the log in our own eye, then we understand that the twig in our brother's eye isn't so large. If you have "issues" with churches (and there are plenty to be had) then I would suggest working dilligently to find one. None are perfect but we are told not to forsake the assembly of others. As with all commands handed down by God, it is for our benefit in our growth.

As far as the Trinity confusing you, you are not alone. It is impossible to understand it. We can only accept it. That is what makes it so true, because if someone was trying to create a god, they certainly wouldn't have created a being that is next to impossible to understand.

An article that may be helpful is What is the Doctrine of the Trinity?

[ConservativeMind]

I do not consider my spirit or my soul to be people.

I consider those to be a “spirit” or a “soul,” respectively.

[ConservativeMind]

I believe we can have a relationship with God with God being God, and not “somebody.”

[Lazamataz]

I love you.