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A Jewish response: Three Old Testament Biblical Passages Misinterpreted as Referencing Jesus
PJ Media ^ | 05/10/2018 | Avner Zarmi

Posted on 05/10/2018 9:32:56 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Recently, PJ Media published a piece purporting to demonstrate that three Biblical passages refer to the crucifixion of the Messiah. The piece erroneously refers to all three of these passages as “prophecies,” and wrenches them out of context in the attempt to make the point. I have been asked to offer a response indicating what these passages really mean.

The first, which is not a “prophecy,” is Psalms XXII, 16-18. The salient passage is actually at the end of verse 17, which the author renders as follows: “They have pierced my hands and my feet.” On the basis of this reading, he concludes that “the Psalmist” (who is unambiguously identified in verse 2 of the Psalm as King David; we need no vague “ascription” in either Jewish or Christian tradition since it is part of the text) is predicting an event said to have occurred some 900 years in the future from his time.

The problem is that the original text says nothing of the sort. This is how verse 17 reads in the original (in transliteration, for those who don’t read Hebrew): Ki sevavuni kelavim, ‘adath mera‘im heqifuni, ka’ari yadai veraglai. An accurate English translation is: “For dogs have surrounded me, a community of evil-doers has hemmed me in, like a lion, my hands and feet.”

The verb “pierce” doesn’t occur anywhere in the passage; the reader will also note the verb tense, which is perfective, referring to a situation which has already occurred and is a current fact.

Putting this into the context of the rest of the Psalm, it is a lament by King David who feels G-d-forsaken and abandoned, beset by his enemies on all sides -- E-li E-li lamma ‘azavtani (“My G-d, my G-d, why have you abandoned me?”) -- and goes on to discuss his trials. He then prays: Ve’atta Ha-Shem al tirchaq eyaluthi le‘ezrathi chisha. Hatzila mecherev nafshi, miyad kelev yechidathi. Hoshi‘eni mipi arye, umiqarnei remim ‘anithani (“And You, Ha-Shem, my strength, be not distant, hasten to my aid. Rescue from the sword my life, from the hand of a dog my soul. Save me from the mouth of the lion, You have answered me from the horns of remim” [the rem was a large, horned beast, now extinct, which was apparently still around in David’s day].) It goes on in this vein until the end.

We can’t know for certain, but this Psalm was probably composed about the time King Sha’ul was hunting David down, or perhaps during the revolt of his son Avshalom, when he was also being pursued. In this vein, it is similar to other Psalms which David composed at times of great stress, when it seemed his prayers weren’t being answered; see Psalms CXVIII, 10-12: Kol goyim sevavuni, beshem Ha-Shem ki amilam. Sabbuni gam sevavuni, beshem Ha-Shem ki amilam. Sabbuni kidvorim do‘achu ke’esh qotzim, beshem Ha-Shem ki amilam (“All nations have surrounded me, for in the name of Ha-Shem I will destroy them. They enveloped me, also surrounded me, for in the name of Ha-Shem I will destroy them. They enveloped me like bees, thorns stung like fire, in the name of Ha-Shem I will destroy them.”)


No messiah here, but rather a king harried by his enemies.

The second passage mentioned is at least an actual prophecy. The passage is Isaiah LII, 1-LIII, 12, popularly known as the “suffering servant” passage. The salient part begins in chapter LIII: Nivze vachalal ishim, ish mach’ovoth vidua choli uchemaster panim mimmennu velo chashavnuhu (“Despised and wounded of men, a man of pains known of illness and like one hiding the face from him; despised, and we did not consider him.”) Thus verse 3 of the chapter.

The issue here isn’t whether or not the Jewish tradition had any concept of a “suffering messiah,” rather, it is “who is the prophet talking about?” Who is the “he” and who are the “we”?

A clue may be found in the previous chapter, where repeatedly G-d refers to ‘ammi (“my people”; cf. e.g. vv. 5-6, of whom he tellingly says: Hinne yaskil ‘avdi yarum veyissa vegavah me’od [“Behold, My servant will act wisely, he shall be exalted and elevated.”]) Chapter LII deals with the exaltation and vindication of Israel which will occur during the final redemption; it is only then that the nations will have the scales fall from their eyes, and they will face up to the enormity of the crimes they’ve committed against Israel throughout the centuries.

Israel is the “suffering servant” of this chapter; both the words ‘am (“people”) and ‘eved (“servant”) are masculine singular words and are routinely referred with the third person masculine singular pronoun.

Who are the “we”? The nations, looking on in horror as they consider the atrocities down through the ages committed against Israel by them. In context, therefore, we can understand what is being prophesied here. No mention of crucifixion.

The third passage is again a prophetic passage: Zechariah XII, 10. The verse, which also deals with the events of Israel’s final redemption, reads as follows: Veshafachti ‘al beyth David ve‘al yoshev Yerushalayim ruach chen vethachanunim, vehibbitu elai eth asher daqru vesafdu, ‘alav kemispad ‘al hayachid, vehamar ‘alav kehamer ‘al bachur (“And I shall pour on the house of David and the resident of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications, and they will look to Me whom they have stabbed and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an individual, and will feel bitter about him as one feels bitterness on one’s first-born.”)

This, indeed, has something to do with a messiah, but not the final Mashiach ben David. Israel’s final redemption will, in fact, come in two stages, because there are two royal houses in Israel: one from Efrayim ben Yosef, the royal house which ruled in the northern kingdom of Israel, and one from the house of David, who ruled first in the united kingdom and subsequently in the southern kingdom of Yehuda. This verse concerns Mashiach ben Yosef, who will lead the ingathering of the exiles and conduct the final war of which Zechariah speaks so eloquently. He will not survive, but will pave the way for reign of Mashiach ben David, who will reign at the end of history (cf. Metzudath David on the passage beginning with verse 8, Rashi and Malbim ad loc.).

There is, again, no mention of crucifixion at the hands of the Romans, and so the claim that this refers to the execution of a Galilaean carpenter for treason against the Roman emperor falls flat.


TOPICS: History; Judaism; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; jesus; judaism; oldtestament; theology
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To: SeekAndFind

John 5:46 For had you believed Moses, you would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,


21 posted on 05/10/2018 10:21:13 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: SeekAndFind

“For dogs have surrounded me, a community of evil-doers has hemmed me in, like a lion, my hands and feet.”

So, what is the construction of that sentence? To what is “like a lion” connected?

“For dogs have surrounded me, a community of evil-doers has hemmed me in, like a lion,

my hands and feet.”

In this case, the first three clauses go together well, but what is the reference to hands and feet? It looks disconnected to me.

“For dogs have surrounded me, a community of evil-doers has hemmed me in,

like a lion, my hands and feet.”

Here, this at least makes sense as part of the sentence - if you assume that “like a lion” is referencing something being done to the hands and feet.


22 posted on 05/10/2018 10:26:06 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: SeekAndFind

Avner Zarmi focuses on a supposed translation error and ignores the fact that the volume of the Book testifies to Jesus Christ as the Messiah. He ignores the prophecy in Daniel that absolutely establishes the day that the Messiah would proclaim Himself, and then be “cut off”. That prophecy has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ in His First Coming as the “Suffering Servant”. Isaiah 53 talks about both Comings, but Jesus only quoted the parts about the First Coming when he read in the Synagogue in Nazareth.

Is that enough elaboration for you? David Limbaugh has written several books about this from a lawyer’s point of view, which should be good for legalistic Jews to understand.


23 posted on 05/10/2018 10:35:51 AM PDT by SubMareener (Save us from Quarterly Freepathons! Become a MONTHLY DONOR)
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To: SubMareener

Too many people have been healed while relying on
“by his stripes we are healed” for it to not refer to Jesus.


24 posted on 05/10/2018 10:37:35 AM PDT by CondorFlight
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To: escapefromboston

“Not really going to take a Jews interpretation of the holy bible seriously (no offense of course).”


Yeah, after all, why take a Jew’s interpretation of the JEWISH bible seriously?

Do you ever listen to yourself?

Did you even READ what was said - as in, this involved a translation of the passages in question. It is much LESS about interpretation than about the ACTUAL meaning of the words.

There are none so blind as those who will not (i.e. refuse to) see.


25 posted on 05/10/2018 11:25:55 AM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: Mom MD; Raycpa; SeekAndFind
The author of the piece, Avner Zarmi, says this:

The problem is that the original text says nothing of the sort. This is how verse 17 reads in the original (in transliteration, for those who don’t read Hebrew): Ki sevavuni kelavim, ‘adath mera‘im heqifuni, ka’ari* yadai veraglai. An accurate English translation is: "For dogs have surrounded me, a community of evil-doers has hemmed me in, like a lion, my hands and feet."
The verb "pierce" doesn’t occur anywhere in the passage; the reader will also note the verb tense, which is perfective, referring to a situation which has already occurred and is a current fact.

-------
* = my bolding for emphasis

It is clear that Zarmi has not done due diligence in reviewing both the codices and the work of true scholars, for he neglects to include the impact that they find, and which is even available to you and I, who are not Hebrew scholars (the KJV scholars certainly were). Citing a couple, I find the following notes:

Albert Barnes' "Notes on the Bible"

Psalm 22:16

They pierced my hands and my feet - This passage is attended with more difficulty than perhaps any other part of the psalm. It is remarkable that it is nowhere quoted or referred to in the New Testament as applicable to the Saviour; and it is no less remarkable that there is no express statement in the actual history of the crucifixion that either the hands or the feet of the Saviour were pierced, or that he was nailed to the cross at all. This was not necessarily implied in the idea of crucifixion, for the hands and the feet were sometimes merely bound to the cross by cords, and the sufferer was allowed to linger on the cross thus suspended until he died from mere exhaustion. There can be no doubt, however, that the common mode of crucifixion was to nail the hands to the transverse beam of the cross, and the feet to the upright part of it. See the description of the crucifixion in the notes at Mt. 27:31-32. Thus, Tertullian, speaking of the sufferings of Christ, and applying this passage to his death, says that "this was the special or proper" - propria - "severity of the cross." Adv. Marcionem, iii. 19, ed. Wurtz, I. p. 403. See Hengstenberg’s Christology, 1,139. The great difficulty in this passage is in the word rendered in our version, "they pierced" - כארי kâ'ăriy. It occurs only in one other place, Is. 38:13, where it means as a lion. This would undoubtedly be the most natural interpretation of the word here, unless there were good reasons for setting it aside; and not a few have endeavored to show that this is the true rendering. According to this interpretation, the passage would mean, "As lions, they (that is, my enemies) surround (gape upon) my hands and my feet; that is, they threaten to tear my limbs to pieces." Gesenius, Lexicon. This interpretation is also that of Aben Ezra, Ewald, Paulus, and others. But, whatever may be the true explanation, there are very serious objections to this one.

(a) It is difficult to make sense of the passage if this is adopted. The preceding word, rendered in our version "enclosed," can mean only "surrounded" or "encompassed," and it is difficult to see how it could be said that a lion could "surround" or "encompass" "the hands and the feet." At all events, such an interpretation would be harsh and unusual.

(b) According to this interpretation the word "me" - "enclosed me" - would be superfluous; since the idea would be, "they enclose or surround my hands and my feet."

(c) All the ancient interpreters have taken the word here to be a verb, and in all the ancient versions it is rendered as if it were a verb.

Even in the Masorah Parva it is said that the word here is to be taken in a different sense from what it has in Is. 38:13, where it plainly means a lion. Gesenius admits that all the ancient interpreters have taken this as a verb, and says that it is "certainly possible" that it may be so. He says that it may be regarded as a participle formed in the Aramaic manner (from כוּר kûr), and in the plural number for כארים kâ'ăriym, and says that in this way it would be properly rendered, "piercing, my hands and my feet"'; that is, as he says, "my enemies, who are understood in the dogs." From such high authority, and from the uniform mode of interpreting the word among the ancients, it may be regarded as morally certain that the word is a verb, and that it is not to be rendered, as in Is. 38:13, "as a lion." The material question is, What does the verb mean? The verb - כוּר kûr - properly means "to dig, to bore through, to pierce." Thus used, according to Gesenius, it would mean "piercing;" and if the word used here is a verb, he supposes that it would refer to the enemies of David as wounding him, or piercing him, "with darts and weapons." He maintains that it is applicable to David literally, and he sees no reason to refer it to the Messiah. But, if so, it is natural to ask why "the hands" and "the feet" are mentioned. Certainly it is not usual for darts and spears thrown by an enemy to injure the hands or the feet particularly; nor is it customary to refer to the hands or the feet when describing the effects produced by the use of those weapons. If the reference were to the enemies of David as wounding him with darts and spears, it would be much more natural to refer to the body in general, without specifying any of the particular members of the body. DeWette renders it "fesseln" - "they bind my hands and my feet." He remarks, however, in a note, that according to the ancient versions, and the codices of Kennicott and DeRossi, it means durchbohren - bore through. Aquila, Symmachus, and Jerome in five codices, says he, render it bind. The Septuagint renders it ὥρυξαν ōruxan - "they pierced." The Latin Vulgate the same, "foderunt." See the Syriac. For these reasons it seems to me that the common rendering is the true one, and that the meaning is, that, in some proper sense, the enemies here referred to "pierced or bored through" the hands and the feet of the sufferer. Evidently this could not be literally applied to David, for there is not the least authority for supposing that this ever happened to him; nor, as has been shown, was such a thing probable. A casual dart, or the stroke of a spear, might indeed strike the hand or the foot; but it would be unusual and remarkable if they should strike those members of the body and leave the other parts uninjured, so as to make this a matter for special notice; and even if they did strike those parts, it would be every way unlikely that they would "pierce them, or bore them through." Such an event would be so improbable that we may assume that it did not occur, unless there was the most decisive evidence of the fact. Nor is there the least probability that the enemies of David would pierce his hands and feet deliberately and of design. I say nothing in regard to the fact that they never had him in their possession so that they could do it; it is sufficient to say that this was not a mode of punishing one who was taken captive in war. Conquerors killed their captives; they made them pass under yokes; they put them under saws and harrows of iron (compare 2 Sam. 12:31; 1 Chr. 20:3); but there is not the slightest evidence that they ever tortured captives in war by piercing the hands and the feet. But, as has been remarked above, there is every reason to believe that this was the ordinary mode of crucifixion. I conclude, therefore, that this must have had original reference to the Messiah. It is no objection to the interpretation that this passage is not expressly referred to as having been fulfilled in the Redeemer, for there are undoubtedly many passages in the prophets which refer to the Messiah, which are not formally applied to him in the New Testament. To make it certain that the prophecy referred to him, and was fulfilled in him, it is not necessary that we should find on record an actual application of the passage to him. All that is necessary in the case is, that it should be a prophecy; that it should have been spoken before the event; and that to him it should be fairly applicable.

* * * * * * *

Adam Clarke's "Commentary on the Bible"

Psalm 22:16

They pierced my hands and my feet - The other sufferings David, as a type of our Lord, might pass through; but the piercing of the hands and feet was peculiar to our Lord; therefore, this verse may pass for a direct revelation*. Our Lord’s hands and feet were pierced when he was nailed to the cross, David’s never were pierced. But there is a various reading here which is of great importance. Instead of כארו caaru, they pierced, which is what is called the kethib, or marginal reading, and which our translators have followed; the keri or textual reading is כארי caari, as a lion. In support of each reading there are both MSS. and eminent critics. The Chaldee has, "Biting as a lion my hands and my feet;" but the Syriac, Vulgate, Septuagint, Ethiopic, and Arabic read, "they pierced or digged;" and in the Anglo-Saxon the words translate: "They dalve (digged) hands mine, and feet mine." The Complutensian Polyglot has כארו caaru, they digged or pierced, in the text; for which it gives כרה carah, to cut, dig, or penetrate, in the margin, as the root whence כארו is derived. But the Polyglots of Potken, Antwerp, Paris. and London, have כארי caari in the text; and כארו caaru is referred to in the margin; and this is the case with the most correct Hebrew Bibles. The whole difference here lies between י yod and ו vau. which might easily be mistaken for each other; the former making like a lion; the latter, they pierced. The latter is to me most evidently the true reading.
--------
* = my bolding for emphasis

* * * * * * *

Thus, I believe the scholars cited give a fuller and less slanted analysis than this current, clearly biased author.

26 posted on 05/10/2018 11:28:23 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: FiddlePig

Isaiah 53 is talking about Israel as a whole, NOT any particular person.

No pretzel twisting necessary, just reading that chapter, and the previous ones, in context (rather than picking and choosing particular verses and ascribing the meaning that YOU would like for them - THAT is pretzel twisting).


27 posted on 05/10/2018 11:31:00 AM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: SeekAndFind
What convinced so many Jews that Jesus was the Messiah in the early days of Christianity is that the Holy Spirit "opened the scriptures" to them and revealed to them all the references to Jesus prophesied therein. Of course, the "hard line" Jews complained then, as they do now, that all of these passages are merely misinterpretations.

In this regard, it is well to consider the words of the pharisee, Gamaliel, as recorded in Acts of the Apostles 5:38-9: "Refrain from these men, and let them alone; for if this council or this work be of men, it will come to nought; But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it, lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God."

2,000 years later, it should be obvious that Christianity is not the work of men.
28 posted on 05/10/2018 11:35:47 AM PDT by Antoninus ("In Washington, swamp drain you.")
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To: D Rider

Source(s) for this allegation?


29 posted on 05/10/2018 11:37:48 AM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: FiddlePig

http://www.mesora.org/Isaiah53.htm


30 posted on 05/10/2018 11:44:12 AM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: SeekAndFind

Genesis 3:15 is the first prophecy penned by Moses. Christ quoted Psalms 22 while hanging on the cross.


31 posted on 05/10/2018 11:51:57 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: SeekAndFind
Sola Scriptura? Don't think so.
32 posted on 05/10/2018 12:25:20 PM PDT by mc5cents (Pray for a new Pope)
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To: SeekAndFind
"The issue here isn’t whether or not the Jewish tradition had any concept of a “suffering messiah,” rather, it is “who is the prophet talking about?”"

"Israel is the “suffering servant” of this chapter..."

Modern rabbinicists attempting to retcon their current rationalizations back into the Old Testament. It is obvious that interpretation wouldn't have been considered valid back in ancient Israel, since they were constantly looking for individual messiahs, and there was an endless stream of such candidates, especially around the time of Christ, because the people knew the time and signs predicted by Daniel were upon them. Only modern rabbinical Judaism has the notion of a "collective messiah", since it is the only way they can justify claiming the predicted messiah never showed up.

33 posted on 05/10/2018 12:48:00 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Ancesthntr

“Yeah, after all, why take a Jew’s interpretation of the JEWISH bible seriously?”

Because modern-day rabbinical Jews have a distinct agenda when it comes to interpreting their “Jewish bible”. That agenda has led them to deny the beliefs of their ancestors on many subjects spoken of in the book, such as the reality of the afterlife, demons, angels, etc, not just the nature of the messiah. They cannot even agree among themselves on many topics, so even if Christians wanted to look to them as an authority on the Old Testament, which of them should we look to? About the only thing their various sects are all in agreement about is denying Jesus.


34 posted on 05/10/2018 12:55:10 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: SeekAndFind

1. The Jewish faithful do not believe Jesus was the Savior prophesied in scripture, so, naturally they will claim those scriptures do not mean what Christians say they mean.

2. Jews of The Christ’s time that were not His disciples, at the behest of their leaders, demanded Pilate have Jesus crucified.

3. Because of the above, the only archaeology research done in Israel is to prove the existence of Jews in Israel and all associated with that.

4. However, we must NEVER forget they are still His People and only He can Judge them for their faithlessness and disbelief. And, He Loves them still, after all is said and done.


35 posted on 05/10/2018 1:05:29 PM PDT by egfowler3 (Vacancy)
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To: SeekAndFind; Boogieman; freepertoo; escapefromboston; Dartoid; D Rider; SubMareener; Antoninus; ...

It’d be refreshing if those people who disagree with Avner Zarmi would read the following with an open mind:

Will the Real Messiah Please Stand Up?: https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/will-real-messiah-please-stand/

Was Jesus the Messiah? https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/was-is-jesus-the-messiah/

Who is the Messiah?: https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/messiah-the-criteria/

Why Don’t Jews See Jesus in the Scriptures?: https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/why-dont-jews-see-jesus-in-the-scriptures/

Isaiah 53 and the Suffering Servant: https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53-and-the-suffering-servant/

Why Jews Cannot Accept the New Testament: https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/why-jews-cannot-accept-the-new-testament/

Christian Proof-Texting: https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/christian-proof-texting/


36 posted on 05/10/2018 1:49:17 PM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: Ancesthntr

I read the Christian bible , not the jewish one.


37 posted on 05/10/2018 2:02:38 PM PDT by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: escapefromboston

“I read the Christian bible , not the jewish one.”


The one that depends on the Jewish Bible for its very validity, that one? OK.

BTW, I’m pretty sure that the very distant cousin of mine that you seem to think was (or somehow is) the Messiah only read the Jewish Bible, and he apparently quoted from it quite a bit.

You might want to rethink your statement. Just saying.


38 posted on 05/10/2018 2:05:37 PM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: Ancesthntr

ISA45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
ISA45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
ISA45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
ISA45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
ISA45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

God. KING JAMES BIBLE TOUCH - KJV (Kindle Locations 29301-29308). Kindle Edition.

Iy you are offended by an English Translation, then see http://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/45-21.htm and following.


39 posted on 05/10/2018 2:43:33 PM PDT by SubMareener (Save us from Quarterly Freepathons! Become a MONTHLY DONOR)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Usually spelled ‘re’em’. I believe the KJV translates it as unicorn. Also said to be the oryx or auroch.


40 posted on 05/10/2018 3:19:38 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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