Posted on 04/17/2018 8:56:07 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Have you been burned by a false prophecy? Did you lose your faith when a promised healing never came? Have you had it with flaky teaching in the name of "new revelation"? If so, you are not alone. There are more Charismatic casualties than many of us would care to admit.
But let me start here with an honest confession. My own experience in Pentecostal-Charismatic circles has been far more positive than negative. I have worked with the same leadership team for more than 20 years. I have had the privilege of serving with men and women of integrity all around the world – I'm talking about Pentecostal-Charismatic leaders around the globe.
I was saved in a Pentecostal church in 1971 and transformed by an outpouring of the Spirit in 1982. I was on the front lines of the Brownsville Revival from 1996-2000, and grads from our ministry school are bearing amazing fruit around the world. And while I have seen my share of scandals and false prophecies and leadership abuses and weirdness, it has been the exception far more than the rule.
Sadly, for many others, the opposite has proved true. For them, there is little or nothing good in the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement. They have been hurt or confused or abused, causing some to reject the move of the Spirit today and causing others to lose their faith entirely. My heart breaks over all these Charismatic casualties, and it is high time that we set our house in order.
I recently read a book critiquing the movement, and in my opinion, it was totally over the top in its criticisms.
Putting aside the scriptural errors I found in the book, it painted a terribly caricatured picture, one that was so exaggerated it was hardly recognizable to me. Yet as I read reviews to the book posted by readers, I saw that many of them were adding their hearty Amen. The picture it painted was all too familiar to them.
I'm aware, of course, that every church (or ministry or denomination or leader) has its critics. You can find horror stories everywhere, and if a church or ministry is big enough, you can find lots of negative reports from those who were allegedly burned by that church or ministry. But when you hear the same story over and over again from people from varied backgrounds, you know that something, somewhere is wrong.
When it comes to the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement, there is no shortage of amazing stories of what the Lord is doing in virtually every nation on the planet. This is truly a stunning, Jesus-exalting, multi-generational work of the Holy Spirit. I see no way to deny that for a split second.
Even more importantly, based on Scripture, I find it indisputable that the gifts and power of the Spirit are to continue in operation until Jesus returns.
But that doesn't minimize the damage that has been done in the name of the Spirit, and there are all too many casualties because of unchecked abuses. Out of love for the Lord and love for His people, we need to step higher.
Although my new book, "Playing with Holy Fire", just came out a few days ago, I'm already seeing a pattern in the reviews being posted by readers.
One reader wrote, "Dr. Michael Brown's very timely and balanced work really addressed where I am right now: disillusioned and heartbroken over the abuses of the contemporary church (this goes beyond the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement, though it is centered there). Furthermore, he encouraged my heart, showing me that I am not alone, and providing a Biblical way forward."
Another commented on Facebook that reading the book was bringing them healing from the negative experiences they had in our circles. Still another wrote, "As a former cessationist who was a cessationist BECAUSE of the abuse I saw happening in exercising the Holy Spirit's gifts, it concerns me too. Both because these abuses keep a very large section of the church away from desiring and pursuing something God wants them to have, but also because it harms our testimonies among unbelievers. This book will definitely be going to the top of my reading list!"
Other pastors and leaders are saying, "At last! These abuses needed to be addressed."
So, while I rejoice in what the Spirit is doing around the world, I grieve over the many who have been hurt and disillusioned because of human error and human sin and human carelessness. Truly, we have been given much by the Lord. And that means that much will be required of us.
May we walk worthy of the Holy Spirit's high calling. And may the name of Jesus be exalted, not tarnished, by our lives and ministries as Pentecostal and Charismatic believers.
The stakes are way too high to play games.
You are correct Mom. 😁👍
Well, all men spoke the same language before the Tower of Babel, and Pentecost just reversed things in a show of God’s power.
The Lord can do whatever He wants with our speech.
Look at how He made it so Zechariah couldn’t talk:
The angel said to him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their appointed time.”
GBU
I am embarrassed to admit I used to be a member of that cult. Actually, I was embarrassed by it, even when I was a member of it. Even when I was in it, I thought some, or many of the doctrines, to be very peculiar.
The New Testament/Covenant is proved by the Old Testament/Covenant.
You can’t separate them.
You have to provide evidence for why Jesus is not the Messiah, based on His claims upon the Old Testament/Covenant.
So feel free.
That will be no easy task. 😁
Probably not since Jesus is the fulfillment of every prophecy and teaching in the OT. It’s really all about Jesus.
He is indeed Mom. Jesus of Nazareth CLAIMED to be the Messiah. That’s why the Pharisees had Him crucified. I don’t believe there is any doubt about His claim. The claims He made, should clue people into checking out His claims, to see if they are believable. I am TOTALLY convinced the claims Jesus made about Himself, are 100% TRUE. Anyone who doesn’t accept Him at His Word.... Well, that’s on them, but an awful, horrible, burning Hell waits for them. They are so COMPLETELY spiritually blind, that they don’t even know they are headed for Hell fire, and won’t even know it, till they suddenly find themselves in the flames. What a shock it will be to them, to wake up one day, and find themselves in the middle of the most pain they could ever imagine. Again, it’s on them.
I think the first thing they will do in Hell, is scream. No one will hear. I think they will be screaming every moment, for all eternity. My question would be, why do they CHOOSE to go to that awful place?
RE: Are those spiritual powers/gifts widely given and implemented by the general Christ-followers today, at the beck and call of every individual believer today?
Just wondering.... what do you make of what Jesus said to His disciples given that we do not see these powers/gifts prevalent today....
SEE HERE:
MARK 16:17-19
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
They will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
(END QUOTE)
Since we do not see these signs accompanying those who believe today ( at least I don’t see it in most churches I visit ), are we to conclude that those who do not manifest these signs do not believe ( since Jesus said these signs shall accompany those who believe)?
I’d like to read your take on this... Thanks.
Let me take a stab at it first. Mark 16: 9-20, were not in the two oldest manuscripts. I wouldn’t make any doctrinal statements, based on those verses. I wouldn’t drink poison, or hold poisonous snakes either.
You assert this, but you don't even try to prove it. Is this something everyone is supposed to "just know???"
You can’t separate them.
Since the Hebrew Bible preceded the "new testament" by a thousand years, this statement of yours is ridiculous. Furthermore chrstians read the Hebrew Bible as mere history; Orthodox Jews still follow it as G-d's requirement for them.
You have to provide evidence for why Jesus is not the Messiah, based on His claims upon the Old Testament/Covenant.
So feel free.
No I do not. In fact, just the opposite is true, and you would recognize that if you were capable of logical thought.
Judaism pre-existed chrstianity. Chrstianity is historically something new making a claim against something already established, or in legal terms, something already "in possession." You don't overthrow the already established for the new unless you are absolutely certain. But evidently there's no such thing as a chrstian who understands this.
I've been on this forum for almost nineteen years and I have never seen a chrstian give a legitimate, logical response as to why he believes chrstianity supersedes/"fulfills" Judaism, other than that's what the "new testament" says. It's the legitimacy of the "new testament" we're arguing about! You can't invoke it to prove itself!
Oh, and btw, "just wait till you're frying in hell" isn't an argument either.
RE: Let me take a stab at it first. Mark 16: 9-20, were not in the two oldest manuscripts.
OK, so what did we have in the oldest manuscripts and which Chapter and verse did the manuscripts end?
RE: The Gospel of Mark ended at verse 8.
It reads:
“Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.”
That is one abrupt ending.
It’s hard to believe that someone who wrote one of the Gospels would abruptly end his narrative here with no mention of Jesus ascending to heaven.
It would seem so, but I will not take up snakes, or drink poison. Maybe Rdmd1 or AMPU might be able to add some words of wisdom.
I see you are determined to double down on your error. So be it.
Henry is probably the most spiritually gifted man since the Apostle Shaul.
Very much worth your time to watch every video you can find about him.
A very amazing man.
>> “It’s hard to believe that someone who wrote one of the Gospels would abruptly end his narrative here with no mention of Jesus ascending to heaven.” <<
If you follow what Paul wrote about Mark, he was a flakey guy at first, but later settled down.
(a) ordinary expositional teaching or evangelidtic preaching is not for the church audience today; nor is
(b) translation of what a, say, Russian-only speaker is saying for the benefit of a Spanish-speaking audience hy an interpreter who is expert in both languages is not for the church today.
Is that what you have understood me to be holding to?
But for sure, in Post #239 you are projecting words back to me (and others) that I did not say, that are not quotations taken from one or more of my comments, and that is deliberately and falsely attributing to me positions that I have not taken.
Repeatedly, you have used the device of purposely crediting others with attitudes and doctrines that they do not hold and words that they did not say. You are going to have to stop this or be reported for using methods of debating contrary to the stated rules for the conduct of this forum.
.
>> “Peter spoke, but the Bible does not say he was speaking in tongues, it states that these several different national representatives heard each in his own language.” <<
I agree with that interpretation fully, there were probably close to a million people there on the temple mount for the commanded feast of Shavuot, and Peter the fisherman was not physically nor intellectually capable of speaking in multiple tongues at once.
But why this arrogant offering:
>> “How much more error are you dragging around in pride?” <<
How much do you drag around?
Get nice!
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Christians do not see the OT as history. The OT is the living Word of God just as is the NT. God is the same OT and NT. In fact the entire OT points to and testifies about Jesus Christ the messiah. OT and NT are all about Jesus
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