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Active intercession?
OSV.com ^ | 11-01-17 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 11/04/2017 12:24:50 PM PDT by Salvation

Active intercession?

Question: Are the saints in heaven active in the affairs of Earth? Robert Bonsignore, Brooklyn, New York

Answer: Yes, we have a lot of evidence for that. But exactly how and to what extent they are aware and active is not fully known to us.

It seems unlikely that the saints can merely look down and watch us as though they were watching a movie, or that they can know our inmost thoughts. Such things are probably beyond their capacity and might even be considered intrusive of our privacy.

It seems safer to assume that the saints are aware of our needs and condition to the degree that God reveals this to them. Thus, if I am asking St. Anthony to pray for me, his capacity to hear my request is facilitated by the Lord and due to the membership both St. Anthony and I have in the Body of Christ. By analogy, the two members of my body that I call my hands can interact by the fact they are coordinated through my head. Jesus is the Head of the Body, the Church and everything in his Body is under his authority and coordinated by him, including the awareness and communion of various members of the body with each other.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Prayer; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; intercession; prayer; saints
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
A PhD from a liberal seminary is worthless. Even lesbian pastors have those...

Really starting to wonder........

121 posted on 11/04/2017 6:14:33 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone; tjd1454
He claims to have earned a phd and that he is a "life long protestant".

Assume he is telling the truth.

Otherwise, if not, assuming a BA, MA, and PhD in Theology for a Protestant would include studies in Hebrew and Greek, you might challenge him to a battle of Hebrew and Greek in real time where neither of you have time to look anything up ... and see who knows Hebrew and Greek more substantively and correctly.
122 posted on 11/04/2017 6:17:22 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
>>And as always...I identify as a follower of Christ.<<

That, it seems to me, effectively conceals which faith community, if any, you belong to. That is relevant in that one who identifies a visible church, denomination, sect, or faith community gives theological and historical context to the creed they claim. Lone rangers tend to ride alone.

Ok...I'm a Christian.

In post 101,

>> "Nope. The deal is you brought up your "credentials" first. You have to prove them. Seminary where you "earned" your phd and one book title you claim to have written. <<

>>Playground rules."<<

I would have expected one writing such would have no qualms identifying their own seminary, assuming it exists.

Was post 101 a mistake ?

Nope. The poster brought it up first. The burden is upon him/her to offer proof of what they claim. He/she claims to have written books on theology and the Bible.

We're just asking for one title. I'm sure it can be found on Amazon.

123 posted on 11/04/2017 6:18:42 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: tjd1454

Thanks. I know. Don’t let them get to you. They are bomb throwers and interested principally in their own truth.

The church has always had anti-Catholics and we still try to love our enemies. Everyone has free will and can choose what they believe. As much as that can frustrate all of us, I can’t image how Christ feels.


124 posted on 11/04/2017 6:19:43 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
A PhD from a liberal seminary is worthless.

What do you think a PhD obtained from a mail order or online school is worth ? I've seen lots of Doctors who did not attend well recognized or regarded institutions of higher learning.
125 posted on 11/04/2017 6:22:51 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: ealgeone

“We’re just asking for one title. I’m sure it can be found on Amazon.

Total, fact- free posts on this thread.

Just assertions you must take on faith.

Sorry. Anyone with an education knows how to form an argument with facts, evidence, and logic.


126 posted on 11/04/2017 6:23:28 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: af_vet_1981

“What do you think a PhD obtained from a mail order or online school is worth ? I’ve seen lots of Doctors who did not attend well recognized or regarded institutions of higher learning.“

About zero. Just like the PhD from a liberal seminary we’ve heard about.


127 posted on 11/04/2017 6:25:01 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Just another anti Catholic troll that sits at home waiting for something to be posted with so that he can jump in the middle of it. Quit replying to them and they’ll go away.


128 posted on 11/04/2017 6:25:06 PM PDT by nobamanomore
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Of course, there isn’t a heck of a lot of anything before 100AD, including a lot of the NT!


129 posted on 11/04/2017 6:28:35 PM PDT by nobamanomore
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To: af_vet_1981
Otherwise, if not, assuming a BA, MA, and PhD in Theology for a Protestant would include studies in Hebrew and Greek, you might challenge him to a battle of Hebrew and Greek in real time where neither of you have time to look anything up ... and see who knows Hebrew and Greek more substantively and correctly.

Depends on the school. For example. Columbia Theological Seminary doesn't require Greek or Hebrew in their core MDIV classes but offers them as an elective...and that's just one course in either Greek or Hebrew.

Their DMin doesn't appear to require any.

Notre Dame's seminary MDiv requirements list no Greek or Hebrew. That doesn't surprise me though as I don't think most Roman Catholic seminaries focus on the original languages.

130 posted on 11/04/2017 6:28:43 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
Ok...I'm a Christian.

Someone testified the same on September 27, 2010.

Knowing the faith community is a certain United Church of Christ gives another context to it.
131 posted on 11/04/2017 6:29:46 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: ADSUM; tjd1454
Otherwise, if not, assuming a BA, MA, and PhD in Theology for a Protestant would include studies in Hebrew and Greek, you might challenge him to a battle of Hebrew and Greek in real time where neither of you have time to look anything up ... and see who knows Hebrew and Greek more substantively and correctly.

If you've followed the thread you'd see who tossed the first bomb and who brought up Roman Catholicism first....Lifelong Protestant here, and sick and tired of willfully ignorant knee-jerk anti-Catholic posters who attack the Catholic Church at every opportunity. (FYI B.A, M.A, and Ph.D. in Theology here). posted on 11/4/2017, 4:00:26 PM by tjd1454

132 posted on 11/04/2017 6:31:51 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: af_vet_1981

I’d identify with the Evangelicals.


133 posted on 11/04/2017 6:32:57 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Which seminaries do you respect ?


134 posted on 11/04/2017 6:33:19 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: nobamanomore

“Of course, there isn’t a heck of a lot of anything before 100AD, including a lot of the NT!

We have an amazing historical record that goes back thousands of years before Christ. Most of the NT Scriptures were written in circulation before 100ad.

If you are saying there is no evidence an Apostle ever taught, commanded or practiced this false teaching, I agree 100%.

There is none we know of.


135 posted on 11/04/2017 6:34:57 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ealgeone; tjd1454
If you think your original language skills are greater than a Protestant with a PhD you might challenge him to an online trial by combat as it were. It might be educational for all concerned.
136 posted on 11/04/2017 6:35:13 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981; aMorePerfectUnion
Which seminaries do you respect ?

You're trying to deflect the attention away from your new ally I see.

The issue was, and still is, where did he/she obtain their phd....what books did they write. They raised the issue first.

137 posted on 11/04/2017 6:36:23 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
I’d identify with the Evangelicals

Calvary Chapel ?
138 posted on 11/04/2017 6:37:23 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
"this thread isn’t a discussion about any of that, nor anything else you posted. It is a discussion about praying to departed saints. ... With your extensive education, maybe you can address the thread topic..."

Ok - just kidding. I'm not really a theologian.

Oh yeah, I've got a bunch of degrees in theology (including earned Ph.D.), and I was a missionary, and have taught and written extensively on theological subjects. But I have little interest in what I consider "peripheral" theological questions.

My concern regarding the issue of praying to the saints is that we must not attribute divine attributes to a man or woman. That is, we must not "pray to" Mary or a saint as if they were capable of directly answering our prayers. Petitions directed to Mary or the saints are only intended to request that they communicate our requests to God, who alone can answer them. As a Protestant I do not pray to Mary or the saints, based upon the verse: "There is one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." Thus, Jesus is my Mediator. However, I understand that Catholics consider Mary and the saints to be "mediators" - as in small "m" - not the Mediator, Christ Jesus. In addition, Catholics have a fuller understanding of the "communion of the saints" which allows for such communications (though being careful to avoid any occultic communications).

139 posted on 11/04/2017 6:37:39 PM PDT by tjd1454
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To: af_vet_1981
If you think your original language skills are greater than a Protestant with a PhD you might challenge him to an online trial by combat as it were. It might be educational for all concerned.

As illustrated...depending on the seminary you can earn a MDiv and PhD without having to take Hebrew or Greek. They might as well go to a Roman Catholic seminary for that matter.

Keep trying with the deflection.

We still don't know if/where tjd1454 attended seminary or wrote any books or taught any classes.

140 posted on 11/04/2017 6:38:48 PM PDT by ealgeone
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