Posted on 11/04/2017 12:24:50 PM PDT by Salvation
Question: Are the saints in heaven active in the affairs of Earth? — Robert Bonsignore, Brooklyn, New York
Answer: Yes, we have a lot of evidence for that. But exactly how and to what extent they are aware and active is not fully known to us.
It seems unlikely that the saints can merely look down and watch us as though they were watching a movie, or that they can know our inmost thoughts. Such things are probably beyond their capacity and might even be considered intrusive of our privacy.
It seems safer to assume that the saints are aware of our needs and condition to the degree that God reveals this to them. Thus, if I am asking St. Anthony to pray for me, his capacity to hear my request is facilitated by the Lord and due to the membership both St. Anthony and I have in the Body of Christ. By analogy, the two members of my body that I call my hands can interact by the fact they are coordinated through my head. Jesus is the Head of the Body, the Church and everything in his Body is under his authority and coordinated by him, including the awareness and communion of various members of the body with each other.
Nope. The deal is you brought up your "credentials" first. You have to prove them. Seminary where you "earned" your phd and one book title you claim to have written.
Playground rules.
Wisdom advises that one does not reply to "phony" questions designed only for entrapment. Make no mistake, EVERYTHING I have said is ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
Except you've said absolutely nothing of note except you're a "life long protestant" whatever that means. I know it isn't to be found in Scripture.
The questions regarding your agreement with the Roman Catholics are mostly yes or no questions. Drop the Mary question if you want.
I have a growing suspicion why you won't answer the questions.
Yes, God is not the God of confusion, nor of any attempts to divide the Body of Christ. How can those who are seeking to sow distension among Christians fail to see that they are the tools of the Evil One?
This is a question that goes to the heart of what it means to be a Christian. Instead of responding, you demand agreement with a laundry list of typical Protestant arguments against Catholics, which by themselves indicate a failure to understand the actual teachings themselves.
FYI. It was not until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century that anyone denied the doctrine of the final purification.
The Historical Doctrine of Purgatory
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1030–1).
The doctrine of purgatory, or the final purification, has been part of the true faith since before the time of Christ. The Jews already believed it before the coming of the Messiah, as revealed in the Old Testament (2 Macc. 12:41–45) as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works. The concept of an after-death purification from sin and the consequences of sin is also stated in the New Testament in passages such as 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 and Matthew 5:25–26, 12:31–32. Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.
It was not until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century that anyone denied the doctrine of the final purification. Some imagine that the Catholic Church has an elaborate doctrine of purgatory worked out, but there are only three essential components of the doctrine. (1) A purification after death exists. (2) It involves some kind of pain. (3) The purification can be assisted by the prayers and offerings by the living to God.
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again received her [Thecla]. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: “Mother, you shall have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the righteous” (Acts of Paul and Thecla [A.D. 160]).
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-historical-doctrine-of-purgatory
Excellent question - but you misunderstand: He is the one asking the questions, not the other way around...
I’ve not trotted out the “I have a phd” card which makes me smarter than you as the poster has.
And as always...I identify as a follower of Christ.
Yes, and you have all the answers, and don’t need no “book lernin’”
If anyone of any denomination has trusted Christ entirely for their salvation, His grace, received by faith, I consider them to be Christians.
Now, I’ll point out the obvious... this thread isn’t a discussion about any of that, nor anything else you posted. It is a discussion about praying to departed saints.
With your extensive education, maybe you can address the thread topic, instead of posting like the Accuser of the Brethren??
Well-reasoned reply. Unfortunately, the anti-Catholics on this thread have little use for appeals to the great Christian thinkers of times past, or even of Scripture unless it consists of proof texts for their pet doctrines.
No...the heart of the matter is you claimed to have a phd and to have taught classes and written books. To substantiate your claim you've been asked for proof. You, for some reason, continue to refuse to offer anything to help us believe you.
As you claim to stand with Roman Catholics you were asked if you agree with some of their doctrines. To which you've avoided answering.
You've avoided answering the basic question of this thread...do you believe in praying to the saints.
So far you've demonstrated a lack of knowledge of basic Christianity as you claim to be a "life long protestant" whatever that is.
You identifed the "true enemy of Christians and Christian culture lies in Islamic fundamentalism and secularism" when the obvious answer is Satan is the true enemy of Christians.
In light of those errors, you may understand why your "theology" is being called into question and why you're being asked to substantiate your claims regarding academia.
“FYI. It was not until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century that anyone denied the doctrine of the final purification.”
Please...
Show that a single Apostle believed or taught this.
Show that ANYONE before 100ad believed this
It cannot be done.
He claims to have earned a phd and that he is a "life long protestant".
A PhD from a liberal seminary is worthless.
Even lesbian pastors have those...
Conversely, virtually every believer God used in the Scriptures did not have a degree, let alone claim a doctorate.
And again...the New Testament stands in opposition to the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church.
8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:8-14 NASB
24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:24-28 NASB
The blood of Christ either cleanses us from all sin or it doesn't.
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