Posted on 11/03/2017 11:55:48 AM PDT by ebb tide
Beginning on Sunday, November 5, in Rome, officially begins the " ecumenical Mass " a few steps from St. Peter's.
From Santa Marta, in the past few days, an unofficial "bergogliano" invitation to these communities started to "organize" (since it is their style to be pioneers of ecclesial innovations) to start with the uterans experimenting with the "ecumenical mass".
Base Communities have been organized for the most part. Meanwhile, publishing a document on the urgent necessity of Eucharistic hospitality within the Catholic and Protestant Church you find here ( http://www.cdbsanpolo.it/cartella%20documenti/Comunit%C3%A0%20di%20base%20e%20Noi % 20We are% 20Chiesa% 20sull'anno% 20luterano-1.pdf ). But that was not enough. From the document they went to action. Indeed, as of November 5, 2017, the Catholic communities will participate in the Protestant Holy Father in the Lutheran Church of Via Sicilia in Rome. They have in fact declared: " Therefore we (the Community of Base..ndr), in our little one, will come here in this church and grateful for your hospitality, to fully participate in your celebration, with you taking bread and drinking wine prepared on the Lord's table. We take this responsible decision with serenity, convinced that it is part of an irreversible journey that will ultimately bring our Churches to full theological pacification and to work together united. " Find all the information in this article ( http://riforma.it/it/articolo/2017/10/31/hospitalita-eucaristica-roma-la-comunita-di-base-partecipa-al-culto-luterano ). The term " irreversible " is still affected in this statement . Obvious. Bergoglio decided it!
In addition, as it was assumed, Lutherans would then move to the community of Base Communities to attend their Eucharist, and then approach them together with Catholics, at times not very clear.
So, even if the official text of the "ecumenical mass" has not yet been published , in the perfect bergogliano style , starts from the "base", beginning this experience, then accepting it, formalizing it, and imposing it. How was it done for communion to "divorced" divorced and Amoris Laetitia. And whoever will dare to speak about it will be marginalized, dismissed, and silenced. In the name of course of mercy.
Note that this episode should not be underestimated. The fact that two steps from San Pietro give rise to the experience of "ecumenical mass" or "intercommunion", after all the various recent Joint Declarations, is highly significant. This is the official beginning of apostasy. At the signing of Jorge Mario Bergoglio. He who has ears intends. And who has ecclesiastical authority to raise the voice, do it now. Or ever again.
Hell; Rome cannot even mend it’s OWN ‘splits’!
Gosh!
It sounds as though the Church doesn't really NEED a 'pope' then!
I can understand how you wouldn't be.
Heheheh. HAW HAW HAW.
Nah, that wasn’t a temper tantrum.
That was me rubbing your nose in the fact that you’re apostate from the Catholic Church for your non-submission to the Pope.
Far from temper; that’s me being quite satisfied at having trapped you. Either you obey Unam Sancatm and you have to submit to ‘Bergoglio’ (and accept Protestants too, like he does) or you disobey CANON LAW and in doing so you’re a Protestant like me.
Allow me to rub your nose in it just a little bit more.
But the thing is that according to Unam Sanctam you still have to submit to the Pope.
Now, if you wanna argue that submission is contingent upon the orders being Biblical, we can discuss that.
My issue is that the OP insists that he doesn’t have to submit at all because he doesn’t like this current Pope, and he still claims to be a faithful Catholic even while attacking his own church leadership every single day.
I'm not surprised.
Well, I was. I didn’t know there was any truth outside the unnamed false religious cult I used to be in. Praise God I am no longer in that false religious cult.
Look, I have no clue, if you are going to Heaven. I don’t know if you even WANT to go to Heaven.
I know you didn’t ask me, but I will tell you anyway. I HAVE assurance of salvation. If I am guilty of the sin of presumption, it’s a beautiful thing. I want to commit that sin 8 million times a day.
Somehow, I get the impression that you have no assurance of ANYTHING. That’s on you bro. You can have it too, but if you don’t want it, no one can help you. Many are called, but few are chosen. (Matt 22:14) I am a chosen one. 😁👍😄😆😀🤯🙏
I am a chosen one.
***
“YOU ARE A CHOSEN ONE!” </Obi-Wan>
Oh sheez, I made a Star Wars Prequels joke.
Unam Sanctum is itself not recognized as an infallible document by the Church. It was much criticized in its own day through today for the over reach by the pope. Indeed if would be ridiculous to take your interpretation of it seriously as that would force what I believe as part of the faith to flap in the breeze of who ever is the current pope, or with Francis, daily with what ever idea passes through his head most recently.
The heart of the Catholic Faith is an unwavering, constant teaching that is consistent from the time of the apostles through the early church Fathers upto today. That is what I hold to against all the damnable heresies from early agnostics to Arius to Luther and up to the present day’s neo-Gnosticism.
Oh REALLY? (Though ‘damnable heresies’ really doesn’t earn you much goodwill from the other side.)
Well, first, can you maybe provide some proof of your claims?
Second, I believe that Elsie here has a long list of Biblical quotes, Roman Catholic quotes, et cetera that we have yet to find Catholics who are willing to give an answer to.
Think you’re up to the challenge?
The Catholic faith doesn’t rest only on the scant contents of a set of writings that fit into a moderately large book but in the entire received Tradition of the Christian faith. Bible alone is a self contradictory heresy and an utterly foolish notion so we cannot have a conversation that considers only the biblical aspects of the legitimacy of Francis’ positions.
As I said, you think you’re up to the challenge?
There’s a huge load of contradictions between Scripture and this tradition of yours. You ready to answer the challenges, or are you going to just keep on insulting people?
I don’t much care about seeking goodwill from the other side when I have not ever seen an ounce of it shown. I’d be a fool if I did. Instead I call a spade a spade and hope that when you get over it you will recognize it is true.
What differenciates us is that I look at the Catholic faith and see thousands of faithful but imperfect people each contributing their part to an amazingly beautiful Christian tapestry. You only seek out the clashes and contradictions to try and pick it apart. If you dared use the same loveless critical techniques on the books of the Bible you would be utterly lost.
I’ve been down that road on FR many times in the last 20 years but it has gotten tedious and I have better ways to spend my time. Few are going to have their hearts and minds changed by yet another pointless religion argument on the internet where both sides go away patting their team on the back about how they won this or that point but with little real charity towards the other side. I prefer to talk to people one on one about what is true and good than verbal jousting.
Good night. I have a family to take care of in the morning.
I don’t much care about seeking goodwill from the other side when I have not ever seen an ounce of it shown.
***
You haven’t seen any of ebb’s other threads, have you?
Let’s just say that this thread is mild compared to the bile and rancor that he throws at us every single day. So perhaps I should say that I’d be a fool to seek goodwill from him when he has never shown any.
But you? I attempted to be civil to you to start with. If you don’t want to be civil back, well, we can handle that. But let the record show that my first reply to you was very civil.
You speak of a tapestry. But it’s a tapestry that strictly refuses to include anyone who’s not Catholic. Personally I find it a mite hypocritical to accuse me of seeking clashes and contradictions while you call what I believe a damnable heresy.
Oh, and we DO apply this critical analysis to Scripture, but it’s far from ‘loveless.’ Rather, we love Scripture so much that we want to find out exactly what it says and what it means instead of just accepting what someone else tells us. And what we have found is that the Word of God holds up to the best critique that we can muster.
Do you think that God’s Word is so weak that human minds can break it apart so easily? Pfft.
I would think that if this Catholic tradition you speak is from the Lord, it too will hold up to ‘loveless critical techniques.’
So again I ask you, are you up for the challenge?
Aaaaaallright then, if you say so. Goodnight.
That can't be true because Boniface made his declaration using the words that are understood to BE an ex cathedra proclamation. The bull ends, "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." Those are the words a Pope uses to define doctrine and make fealty to his words mandatory upon Catholics. I hope you appreciate the conundrum that either Pope Boniface VIII did not speak ex cathedra or he is not infallible in his declarations. Which one do you choose?
Yet there are numerous teachings and doctrines held by the Roman Catholic church today that do NOT have a pedigree of an "unwavering, constant teaching that is consistent from the time of the apostles through the early church Fathers up to today". Many of these novel doctrines were declared BY past Popes using the ex cathedra formula.
If Unum Sanctum is invalid as a binding ex cathedra declaration (and Boniface used the required formula), then he wasn't infallible in his office as Pope.
You don't seem to understand what sola Scriptura really means. If you did, you would understand why it is NOT self-contradictory NOR heresy. You're right that the Roman Catholic religion doesn't rest upon the Divinely-inspired word of God. In fact, truth is whatever they say it is. Read this interesting article discussing the "development" of doctrine in the Roman Catholic church:
I’m not catholic ...big secret around here I know
But I think Francis sorta open to wives was smart
Isn’t the celibacy thing post Peter?
Outside observer
I know KOC here aware thinking that’s what orthodox are for dummy......
I don’t much cotton to traditions collapsing
I’m southern I got an earful for union that topic
I had fish today coincidentally
Just like school as a kid btw....fridays
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