Posted on 07/26/2017 10:35:48 AM PDT by ebb tide
Sources inside the Vatican suggest that Pope Francis aims to end Pope Benedict XVI’s universal permission for priests to say the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), also known as the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. While the course of action would be in tune with Pope Francis’ repeatedly expressed disdain for the TLM especially among young people, there has been no open discussion of it to date.
Sources in Rome told LifeSite last week that liberal prelates inside the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith were overheard discussing a plan ascribed to the Pope to do away with Pope Benedict’s famous document that gave priests freedom to offer the ancient rite of the Mass.
Catholic traditionalists have just celebrated the tenth anniversary of the document, Summorum Pontificum. Pope Benedict XVI issued it in 2007, giving all Latin Rite priests permission to offer the TLM without seeking permission of their bishops, undoing a restriction placed on priests after the Second Vatican Council.
The motu proprio outraged liberal bishops as it stripped them of the power to forbid the TLM, as many did. Previously priests needed their bishop’s permission to offer the TLM.
Additionally, Summorum Pontificum stated that wherever a group of the faithful request the TLM, the parish priests should willingly agree to their request.
The overheard plans are nearly identical to comments from an important Italian liturgist in an interview published by France’s La Croix earlier this month. Andrea Grillo a lay professor at the Pontifical Athenaeum of St Anselmo in Rome, billed by La Croix as “close to the Pope,” is intimately familiar Summorum Pontificum. Grillo in fact published a book against Summorum Pontificum before the papal document was even released.
Grillo told La Croix that Francis is considering abolishing Summorum Pontificum. According to Grillo, once the Vatican erects the Society of Saint Pius X as a Personal Prelature, the Roman Rite will be preserved only within this structure. "But [Francis] will not do this as long as Benedict XVI is alive.”
The plan, as related to LifeSite, involved making an agreement with the Society of St. Pius X and, with that agreement in place, sequestering those Catholics wanting the TLM to the SSPX. For most, that would strip them of access to the TLM since there would not be nearly enough SSPX priests to service Catholics wanting the TLM worldwide.
Moreover, LifeSite’s source suggested that the plan may explain a May 20, 2017 letter by the recently ousted Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, Cardinal Gerhard Müller. Even though Cardinal Müller wanted the SSPX fully reconciled to help fight modernists in the Church, the May 20 letter seemed to scuttle an agreement between Pope Francis and the SSPX which would see them get a personal prelature. The letter includes provisions long known to be completely unacceptable to the SSPX, thus nullifying an understanding SSPX leader Bishop Bernard Fellay believed was imminent.
The LifeSite source suggested that the May 20 letter by Muller perhaps was written because he knows what Francis was up to and wanted to avoid the plan to bury Summorum Pontificum with Pope Benedict. “It’s directed not so much against Fellay but against the agreement,” said the source. “Pope Francis was very angry that document came out from Cardinal Muller and some say that’s why he made the decision to dismiss him.”
The priest standards of training in thought, theology and Bible are very low, as has been demonstrated on FR and by a review of catholic seminary curriculum required courses.
Jesus “performs” every Mass.
Hi, aMPU my friend.
My parish has Latin Mass just two Sundays a month. Singing with the choir, I find it moves me on so many levels, because of its reverence, majesty and tranquility.
Note to both Catholics and non-Catholics who may not know this: the text of the Tridentine Mass (one that was so many centuries-in-the-making, and finally adopted as the norm for the West at 16th century Trent) is a daisy-chain of Scripture all through: there's scarcely a word in it that's not Scripture.
That's why there's no dichotomy between being "bound together by Christ" (which is what I wish for ALL of us without exception) --- and the Latin Mass. It's not as if it were an either-or proposition.
Some Protestants may understand if I compare it to a preference for the KJV. It embodies a kingly dignity; so it appeals to a certain inner yearning to give God His own, in the most fitting form we can.
Blessings to all who read these words.
Not that this is all "of the essence." I doubt the first Pope, Peter the Fisherman, was a University of Galilee grad.
I'm glad to be able to explain that to you.
D’accordo.
“Not that this is all “of the essence.” I doubt the first Pope, Peter the Fisherman, was a University of Galilee grad”
He grew up knowing the Biblical languages and had The Greatest Teacher the world has ever known - 24/7 for 3 years.
” These days seminary is, you could say, the minimum requirement”
More courses in the Scriptures would do them well, based on what we see here on FR.
Do you have any objective surveys or studies that indicate what you say is widely applicable to priests outside your circle?
“Tridentine Mass (one that was so many centuries-in-the-making, and finally adopted as the norm for the West at 16th century Trent) is a daisy-chain of Scripture all through: there’s scarcely a word in it that’s not Scripture.”
It is what is left out through selective choices that distorts the Gospel.
Best
Thank you, and I feel blessed.
What do you think is "left out" that "distorts the Gospel"?
Is SS not a truth necessary to salvation?
“Is SS not a truth necessary to salvation?”
Assuming your abbreviation “SS” stands for Sola Scripture, the answer is no, Belief in Sola Scriptura is not necessary for salvation.
“Sola Scriptura simply means that all truth necessary for our salvation and spiritual life is taught either explicitly or implicitly in Scripture. It is not a claim that all truth of every kind is found in Scripture.”
A person can become saved and have eternal life without understanding SS or a great many other things.
Salvation is so simple a child can entrust himself to Christ for salvation.
Best.
“What do you think is “left out” that “distorts the Gospel”?”
The mass details enough to get you to third base, but not to Home.
This has been discussed on FR for *years*
The distortion comes when you ignore the Sacred Tradition --- the continuous interpretive community bringing forth what was handed on to us by the Apostles and brought to mind afresh by the Holy Spirit, Who --- by Christ's promise --- reminds us of all He taught us.
To be frank, distortion is easy enough for anybody, anywhere. That is why reverent prayer and a certain inward trembling is necessary, I think. We need to ask God's grace to get past our own malformations and get things right from His perspective. We should "do theology" on our knees.
Tagline for YOU!
Red HerringYou assume a representative selection cannot be made.
The distortion comes when you ignore the Sacred Tradition --- the continuous interpretive community bringing forth what was handed on to us by the Apostles and brought to mind afresh by the Holy Spirit, Who --- by Christ's promise --- reminds us of all He taught us.
Assuming the Conclusion
Argument from Silence
Circular Reasoning
Psychologist's Fallacy
Wishful Thinking Fallacy
Appeal to Tradition Fallacy -
Cognitive Bias in operation -There is no proof that what exists today was handed to anyone at an earlier time.
It is presumed without proof and must be rejected for the same reason.As we discussed the first time we met, there is nothing before 100 ad to support an Apostle teaching or practicing half of the teachings of Rome. Your argument assumes it must be there somewhere.
Still, best to you FRiend.
Liturgical scholars are not exactly sure when the Roman Mass came together in the form we know. We find it pretty much intact in the earliest manuscripts (from the 6th-7th centuries if I remember right). The Mass as described by St. Augustine in the 4th century shows that certain key features were already in place in Africa. And there is some evidence that it went back all the way to the earliest liturgies in Rome: particularly the absence of an epiclesis which seems to date to a time before the theology of the Holy Ghost was completely worked out.
Basically, as far as Rome goes, the traditional Mass is the only one we have solid evidence of; there are certain disputed liturgies like the Canon of Hippolytus, but they are of questionable provenance.
Jesus was NOT in that ‘mass’ performed by pappy Francis on our border a year plus ago, attempting to meddle in our election.
But not back to the NT. More proof that Rome's claims of apostolic succession are bogus.
I did NOT “assume a representative selection cannot be made!”. Far from it!
Where’n’heck do you get this stuff, anyhow??
Please, please don’t tell me what (you think) I think.
ASK me what I think.
Please, please TELL me what YOU think. That will be more likely to be accurate, anyhow -—as well as thoughtful, and much more interesting.
Jesus is not involved in “infalliblizing” papal diplomacy, now or at any time, and that’s for sure.
But you have no warrant whatsoever to say that Jesus is not the sole High Priest and the Person who principally acts and prays at every Mass. Man unaided cannot do this thing. It is Christ alone Who offers among the gentiles, as Malachi prophesied, the pure Sacrifice.
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