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Inner Vision: Having connection with God is more satisfying than physically seeing God
OSV.com ^
| 07-12-17
| Msgr. Charles Pope
Posted on 07/22/2017 7:32:38 AM PDT by Salvation
Inner vision Having a deep understanding and connection with God is more satisfying than physically seeing God
7/12/2017
Monsignor Charles Pope
Question: You said in a previous answer, “We need not presume that we will see God with our physical eyes.” This confuses me, because St. Paul says of heaven that we shall see God “face to face” (1 Cor 13:12). Can you elaborate? — Name, location withheld
Answer: My use of the word “presume” does not exclude physical seeing altogether but seeks to avoid reducing the beatific vision to natural seeing (light hitting our retina). But while not excluding it altogether, I remain dubious that such seeing will be necessary or even, to some extent, possible. Let’s review and elaborate.
First, there are different ways of seeing, and we commonly use this in our language, as did the Scriptures. One way of seeing is the simple act of physical seeing where light reaches our retina. But there is also an intellectual and spiritual way of seeing. If you are trying to explain something to me and I finally understand it, I will say, “Ah, I see.” But I do not mean my physical eyes see, but that my inner vision comprehends the truth you have said and lights up my mind.
The passage that you quote does speak of seeing, but not physical seeing. The problem with seeing God’s face with our physical eyes is that God does not have a physical “face” to see. Both “seeing” and “face” are used in passages like this as images or analogies of something deeper. Even now we know that the face is the most revelatory quality of a person. We might strain our neck to see a person’s face because, somehow, we know that to see their face is to see them in the fullest sense. And thus, when Scripture speaks of seeing God’s face, it means that we will see him the richest and most revelatory way possible.
It is true that in heaven some people will be able to see Jesus. But our physical eyes will see his human nature, not his divine nature, per se. God, as he is pure spirit, cannot be seen any more than a thought can be seen.
In the Old Testament certain theophanies and visions of angels (who are also pure spirit) are seen with the physical eyes of people. In this case we must conclude that God uses some aspects of physical creation to mediate his presence. Thus, it is possible that God does this in heaven, too.
But why would he? The inner vision of deep understanding and soulful connection is a far richer and more satisfying seeing of God, as anyone who experiences contemplative prayer will attest.
All the great spiritual masters call for a dark night of the senses, pointing beyond the physical senses and to the deeper seeing of contemplation beyond words or images. An ancient maxim says, “I close my eyes in order to see.”
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; msgrcharlespope; osv
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All the great spiritual masters call for a dark night of the senses, pointing beyond the physical senses and to the deeper seeing of contemplation beyond words or images. An ancient maxim says, “I close my eyes in order to see.”
1
posted on
07/22/2017 7:32:38 AM PDT
by
Salvation
To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...
Monsignor Pope Ping for his OSV column.
2
posted on
07/22/2017 7:34:38 AM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: Salvation
Full title:
Inner vision Having a deep understanding and connection with God is more satisfying than physically seeing God
3
posted on
07/22/2017 7:37:00 AM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: Salvation
God is with me and He hears my prayers. His Son died for my sake and I live for His sake.
4
posted on
07/22/2017 7:47:37 AM PDT
by
elcid1970
("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam. Buy ammo.")
To: Salvation
I hope it will be a while before I see God.
A loooooooooong while.
In the meantime I speak with Him through prayer and that sees to work for both of us.
5
posted on
07/22/2017 7:53:22 AM PDT
by
freedumb2003
(The Civil Rights movement compared content of their character to skin color and chose the latter)
To: Salvation
"...You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Pet. 2:5).
Thus, all Christians are of that holy priesthood and can offer spiritual sacrifices to God. All have the right to go directly to God through Jesus Christ, our High Priest (Heb. 4:14-16).
"CHRIST FREES US"
No state-established/establishing "intercessors" required.
6
posted on
07/22/2017 7:53:54 AM PDT
by
HLPhat
(It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
To: Salvation
1Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 2in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;
4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.
5And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever. Reve 22:1-5 NASB
The Christian is assured they will be in Heaven.
Can the Roman Catholic say the same?
7
posted on
07/22/2017 7:59:53 AM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: Salvation
My wife was literally "the-girl-next-door".
Many moons ago while our two little girls were in the family room, we were in our living room. I was sitting on the couch and she was sitting on floor next to me.
Suddenly a strong wave came over us - for me it went from my head down to my toes - and it was THE most intense feeling I have ever experienced. After it reached my toes, I turned my head and saw the whitest light in the shape of an angel...or perhaps it was God.
Perhaps the experience was to provide strength as only nine months later, at 28, she had lost a battle to breast cancer.
I have rarely shared this story....and not sure what motivated me to share it this morning.
A photo when we lived in Hollywood in late 60's-early 70's and we were hiking in the H-Wood Hills.....seems like yesterday...
8
posted on
07/22/2017 8:17:23 AM PDT
by
newfreep
("If Lyin' Ted was an American citizen, he would be a traitor.")
To: Salvation
The inner vision of deep understanding and soulful connection is a far richer and more satisfying seeing of God, as anyone who experiences contemplative prayer will attest. An "inner vision"???? A more "deep understanding and soulful connection"??? I would caution that this is Gnosticism. Everything we need to understand and know about God is given to us through the scriptures and confirmed to us by the Holy Spirit. There is no need for "deep understanding" nor does someone have a special knowledge.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue
9
posted on
07/22/2017 8:18:08 AM PDT
by
HarleyD
(Ecc 10:2 A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left.)
To: Salvation
Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.
- JOHN 20:29 KJV
10
posted on
07/22/2017 8:25:40 AM PDT
by
Bratch
("The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke)
To: HarleyD
I would caution that this is Gnosticism
I understand what you are saying, yet God is a living God will do things at his great pleasure in his personal relationship with us.
A few thoughts.
1) If these “inner visions of deep understanding and soulful connections” are independent of Gods word RUN.
2) Many of these experiences are meant to be personal with God and when shared with others take on a life of it’s own and are perverted. “Mary pondered these things in her heart” is an example. Does not mean they should not be shared, but more often than not, the event is the focus, not the message.
Luk 2:19 but Mary kept all these things in her heart and thought about them often.
11
posted on
07/22/2017 8:37:28 AM PDT
by
PeterPrinciple
(Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
To: Salvation
Ah, I see.
“I see said the blind man when he stepped in a pile of cowshit.” was a common expression of my father as I was growing up. Much wisdom in that, that I see in my later years.
Related to this is what I just read in Job:
Job 42:5 I had only heard about You before, but now I have seen You with my own eyes.
Job 42:6 I take back everything I said, and I sit in dust and ashes to show my repentance.”
A small discussion with God will open one’s eyes.
12
posted on
07/22/2017 8:48:18 AM PDT
by
PeterPrinciple
(Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
To: Salvation
Tell that to St. Paul and his horse.
13
posted on
07/22/2017 8:59:32 AM PDT
by
bunkerhill7
((("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione."))))))
To: Salvation
Thank you for posting. It would be nice if you could do so without eliciting some of the responses. Why is this not a Caucus thread?
14
posted on
07/22/2017 9:00:46 AM PDT
by
lastchance
(Credo.)
To: PeterPrinciple
1) If these inner visions of deep understanding and soulful connections are independent of Gods word RUN. The apparitions claiming to be Mary fall under this category.
15
posted on
07/22/2017 10:15:47 AM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: lastchance
Thank you for posting. It would be nice if you could do so without eliciting some of the responses. Why is this not a Caucus thread?Can Roman Catholicism not withstand the light of scrutiny?
16
posted on
07/22/2017 10:17:13 AM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: ealgeone
Of course it has and will do so. But it would be nice for us to be able to discuss what Msr Pope wrote without the interruptions. Now if he had written something along the lines of “The following Protestant doctrine is piffle and should be put in comic books” I would fully understand the desire and need to correct any misconceptions about Protestant beliefs. But he does nothing of the sort and the anti-Catholic rhetoric amounts to little more than harassment for the sake of harassment.
17
posted on
07/22/2017 12:12:31 PM PDT
by
lastchance
(Credo.)
To: lastchance
The Msgr suggests we may not see God....the passage in Revelation says otherwise.
That is a correction of yet another erroneous teaching of Roman Catholicism.
18
posted on
07/22/2017 12:19:02 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: ealgeone
**The Christian is assured they will be in Heaven. **
That is God’s judgment, not ours.
19
posted on
07/22/2017 1:10:39 PM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: HarleyD
20
posted on
07/22/2017 1:12:18 PM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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