Posted on 06/08/2017 5:24:08 PM PDT by ealgeone
Question: "Is eternal security a "license" to sin?"
Answer: The most frequent objection to the doctrine of eternal security is that it supposedly allows people to live any way that they want and still be saved. While this may be "technically" true, it is not true in reality. A person who has truly been redeemed by Jesus Christ will not live a life characterized by continuous, willful sin. We must draw a distinction between how a Christian should live and what a person must do in order to receive salvation.
The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6). The moment a person truly believes in Jesus Christ, he or she is saved and secure in that salvation. It is unbiblical to say that salvation is received by faith, but then has to be maintained by works. The apostle Paul addresses this issue in Galatians 3:3 when he asks, "Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" If we are saved by faith, our salvation is also maintained and secured by faith. We cannot earn our own salvation. Therefore, neither can we earn the maintenance of our salvation. It is God who maintains our salvation (Jude 24). It is God's hand that holds us firmly in His grasp (John 10:28-29). It is God's love that nothing can separate us from (Romans 8:38-39).
Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works and efforts. This is completely antithetical to salvation by grace. We are saved because of Christ's merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God's Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is saying that Jesus' death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. Jesus' death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sinspast, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).
Does this mean that a Christian can live any way he wants to and still be saved? This is essentially a hypothetical question, because the Bible makes it clear that a true Christian will not live "any way he wants to." Christians are new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17). Christians demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), not the acts of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). First John 3:6-9 clearly states that a true Christian will not live in continual sin. In response to the accusation that grace promotes sin, the apostle Paul declared, "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" (Romans 6:1-2).
Eternal security is not a license to sin. Rather, it is the security of knowing that God's love is guaranteed for those who trust in Christ. Knowing and understanding God's tremendous gift of salvation accomplishes the opposite of giving a license to sin. How could anyone, knowing the price Jesus Christ paid for us, go on to live a life of sin (Romans 6:15-23)? How could anyone who understands God's unconditional and guaranteed love for those who believe, take that love and throw it back in God's face? Such a person is demonstrating not that eternal security has given him a license to sin, but rather that he or she has not truly experienced salvation through Jesus Christ. "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him" (1 John 3:6).
You need to supply these verses, so that we can explore their context. "purgatory" is an extra-biblical doctrine based on a lie. See below on works and righteousness.
As to obey: Greek "obey" is sometimes translated as "believe". See John 3:36:
He that believeth (πιστεύων) on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth (ἀπειθῶν) not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν ἀλλ' ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μένει ἐπ' αὐτόνIt's not dificult to understand the relationship -- to obey the Lord by following him in faith.
Many today believe in this false works doctrine. It's not new. Israel also sought righteousness through works. Not possible.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Romans 9:30-33)
Trying to achieve righteousness by following after the law is NOT possible.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Galatians 2:21)
You say one thing and then nullify It with your ensuing contingencies. You are saved NOW, believer! From that secure position you are now free to “walk worthy”.
There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Believe THAT!
We are talking past each other. Christ redeemed the world, and that is one reason we are called sons of the Father.
However, please remember what Jesus told the woman caught in adultery. He isn’t condemning her, but he does tell to sin no more. She is worthy of forgiveness, but also needs to amend her life.
We have to be on guard, wary of the evil one, and the glamor of evil.
Romans 7
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Any true believer suffers for their sin just like Paul did.
It is the sin that dwelleth in us.
Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Luke 6
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
James 2
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
You didn’t give the chapter and verse references which would help.
When I look back upon my life
It’s always with a sense of shame
I’ve always been the one to blame
For everything I long to do
No matter when or where or who
Has one thing in common, too
It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a sin
It’s a sin
Everything I’ve ever done
Everything I ever do
Every place I’ve ever been
Everywhere I’m going to
It’s a sin
At school they taught me how to be
So pure in thought and word and deed
They didn’t quite succeed
For everything I long to do
No matter when or where or who
Has one thing in common, too
It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a sin
It’s a sin
Everything I’ve ever done
Everything I ever do
Every place I’ve ever been
Everywhere I’m going to
It’s a sin
Father, forgive me, I tried not to do it
Turned over a new leaf, then tore right through it
Whatever you taught me, I didn’t believe it
Father, you fought me, ‘cause I didn’t care
And I still don’t understand
So I look back upon my life
Forever with a sense of shame
I’ve always been the one to blame
For everything I long to do
No matter when or where or who
Has one thing in common, too
It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a sin
It’s a sin
Everything I’ve ever done
Everything I ever do
Every place I’ve ever been
Everywhere I’m going to - it’s a sin
It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a sin
It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a sin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5OYtAauQRk
We all live a life of continuous, willful sin. All sin is willful, and we sin everyday. To suggest we dont is absurd.
So, the question remains.
I can both intellectually and emotionally accept Christ as my savior and objectively understand that my sins both past and present are forgiven.
There’s a serious guilt factor at work which is different for everyone.
The question remains;
Am I still worthy of Christ’s redemption if I knowingly sin?
If no, then when?
If yes then why bother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOPdqxVP6Ow
There’s a commitment factor to the Lord above that should be adhered too, but as you say “We are all sinners”
We are NEVER worthy of Christ’s Redemption, that’s why it is such an enormous gift! He offers it freely, an eternity of life with the Father.
However, we often reject this gift, sometimes in minor, or grave ways. To fully enjoy what He has freely given, we must conform ourselves to His will. If we don’t, He has warned us Hell awaits.
Heaven is the outcome of obeying God, and all He commands. We lack perfection, and He offers us His Mercy, if we desire it.
Hell is the outcome of disobedience. It is also the outcome of impenitence and presumption. If one says, “Well, God knows I’m sorry, so I don’t really need to do anything,” consider that pride, and also consider its consequence.
We should obey God out of love and acknowledgement of his Perfection, Omnipotence, and Omniscience. On paper it seems easy and logical. However, we are all victims of our own pride, the influence of the evil one, and the world.
We should strive to be worthy of His great gift, though we never can be. And we should do it out of love for Him.
Sometimes pop music just “says it”, lol.
If you love God more than you love sin, you will not be sinless but you will sin less. As time goes by you will sin less.
What we learn from the Bible is that the battle is internal. If you love sin more than you love God, you will continue to sin. In this sense, the question is very concrete and mathematical.
We should strive to be worthy of His great gift, though we never can be. And we should do it out of love for Him.
Everyone has differing feelings of guilt or unworthiness as they navigate their lives.
Does Knowing right from wrong, or the lack of knowing, make a difference in God’s eyes?
This then gets really personal.
Willful disregard and ignorance.
What we learn from the Bible is that the battle is internal. If you love sin more than you love God, you will continue to sin. In this sense, the question is very concrete and mathematical.
I really need to explore this further in the context of this thread.
FWIW,
I found Christ as my savior on Jan 1 2000 in a state of despair.
Prior to that, I was raised by a Roman Catholic father and the daughter of a Norwegian Methodist Minister from North Dakota. I attended Sunday School as a matter of what my Father wanted me to do without any discussion. I got nothing from those days. They separated and divorced when I was 12 and was left to my own devices, literally.
Left to discover both myself and a truth that transcends anything that could be TOLD to me.
I was completely free to mess up and figure things out for myself. And I did both.
I worked my butt off and along the way I found myself watching a PBS series by Joseph Campbell on mythology. I was fascinated. He’s conclusion is that WE are all Gods. This never really worked well with me as I sat that aside and continued on my path.
It was Jan. 1 2000 when I woke up after a devastating night realizing that my wife is cheating on me and what may become of my daughter. It was Charles Stanley that happened to pop up on the television. This is when I accepted Christ.
Just when I thought everything will now make sense, I soon discovered the seriousness of this position.
There was an awakening of my new/renewed foundations of belief.
I dove head first into the Bible and quickly realized that Apologetics was required. I attended a number of conferences and bible study groups and read boat loads of material. I thoughtfully examined the works of leading Christians and others. Ironically, it was Joseph Campbell and his Buddhism that reaffirmed my belief in God. I studied Evolution, Buddhism, the Koran, Physics and all the math along the way.
I came to a logical conclusion after a process of elimination that there is only one God and Creator, and Jesus came to earth and died for my sins. There is no escaping this.
I know this.
I just can’t stop myself from being severely flawed.
Thank you for your testimony.
You negate the power of the Holy Spirit and His work living inside you. It isn’t an “intellectual” pursuit. It is a desire not to sin.
It is a matter of the ‘changing of the heart’.
In my pride and vanity I can’t self-will my way away from sin, I must let go of sin through surrender of my will to the Higher Power and all that implies, including the Holy Spirit which I certainly was not born with.
He never does. Though he’s been asked to many, many times.
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