[Vanity]Defending Pontius Pilate

5/11/2017 | Stormprepper

[StormPrepper]

In my humble opinion Pontius Pilate was not only NOT evil but he will probably be saved at the judgment. He certainly had the potential to be a very good man.

The Jews at the time of Christ were the only people in the history of mankind that were so wicked they would crucify their own God.

This fact plays into God's plan for our salvation. Jesus would come to earth, gain a physical body, learn through mortal experiences pain, anquish, temptation, and joy. He would overcome all things, suffer to pay the price for sin, then His body would be put to death, and He would over come death and take His body up again. The first of Heavenly Father's children to do so.

But in order to be put to death, Jesus would have to face the wrath of the Jews. However, they were restrained by the law and could not themselves kill Jesus. They had to be taken before the Roman authority.

That authority being Pontius Pilate. Pontius Pilate was also restrained by the law, he couldn't refuse the demand of the Jews to execute Jesus. Even though, he himself judged Jesus to be innocent.

He washed his hands of the affair wanting no part of it.

This is the reason why Jesus didn't teach the Romans about his divinity nor did they witness any miracles. Pontius Pilate didn't know who He was. And Jesus didn't tell him He was the Son of God nor did He perform any miracles in front of Pilate.

Had Jesus shown Pontius Pilate His divinity as He had the Jews, Pilate would never have given the order to crucify Jesus. And that was not the plan of God.

In the end, Jesus pleaded with His Father to forgive the Romans for their part in His death. The truth had been purposely with-held from them.

There is an argument to be made for Pontius Pilate, so don't be too quick to judge him.

[BipolarBob]

Are you trying to claim that Jesus being crucified was just bad luck on his part?

No. I never mentioned luck in my posting.

He was born at that time because those Jews at that time, were the only people in all the world at any time that would kill their God.

The Jews and Jewish leaders did not recognize Him as such. He was charged with blasphemy for equating Himself with God. He came into the world at that time because it was the time God set.

[Mark17]

They engage in cult speak, so we are not even speaking the same language here.
You know, I have never seen a pro Jehovah's Witness thread. I don't look forward to one either.

[Elsie]

. I remember his name, but I won't put it out there.

Had some alliterative character G's in it IIRC.

---

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/executions-by-firing-squad-poised-to-make-comeback-in-utah/ar-AA9DpqR

 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=gilmore%20executed%20by%20firing%20squad%20in%20utah.&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=gilmore%20executed%20by%20firing%20squad%20in%20utah.&sc=0-41&sk=&cvid=BB1073025FA84995AF705CBADC2E44E0

[Elsie]

But when they were specifically taught, the accepted the Lord in full measure.

I think that you know that this is fine; but not NEARLY enough...

---

What Joseph Smith Means to Us  (From: various sources )

 

 

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

---

---

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

Like the other gentile groups, they were excluded until after Jesus was crucified.

Why does The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints call Jews; GENTILES?

[Elsie]

Basically what you did was tell me that I'm wrong, then give an example of why I'm right. -Thanks!

 

 

What's for dinner?

 

D&C 49:18-19  18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; 19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

D&C 89:12-13  12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; 13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

 

 

 

It must be tough; being a Mormon.   Having to face Scripture that state two oppossing ideas and somehow managing to believe BOTH of them!  It's no WONDER that Utah leads in Prozac usage!

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Show me from the BIble where he repented of his sin before the ONE who could forgive his sin.

Show me from the BIble where he DID NOT REPENT of his sin before the ONE who could forgive his sin.

---

The FACTS are; We do not know; one way or the other.

[Elsie]

Are you trying to claim that Jesus being crucified was just bad luck on his part?

Are you trying to claim that Joseph Smith, being shot while shooting off a pistol of his own, was just bad luck on his part?

I'd think that a PROPHET would have seen THIS coming!!

[Elsie]

They engage in cult speak,

MAybe not; but a Mormon like SP sure talks a LOT and NEVER seems to mention anything MORMON!!

---

I wonder why??

---

The

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 71

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238–239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.

1–4, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are sent forth to proclaim the gospel; 5–11, Enemies of the saints shall be confounded.

1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, that the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel, the things of the kingdom, expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures, according to that portion of Spirit and power which shall be given unto you, even as I will.

2 Verily I say unto you, proclaim unto the world in the regions round about, and in the church also, for the space of a season, even until it shall be made known unto you.

3 Verily this is a mission for a season, which I give unto you.

4 Wherefore, labor ye in my vineyard. Call upon the inhabitants of the earth, and bear record, and prepare the way for the commandments and revelations which are to come.

5 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also;

6 For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power.

7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.

8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.

9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you—there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;

10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.

11 Wherefore, keep my commandments; they are true and faithful. Even so. Amen.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

... SP sure talks a LOT and NEVER seems to mention anything MORMON!!

And uses that KJV thing that is SO 'suspect' according to the Articles of Faith.

I wonder why??

---

[Elsie]

Once a Bait-and-Switch salesman...

[Mark17]

Well hey Els, I am the first to admit that for the most part, Mormons are nice, good natured, hard working, law abiding people. For that they should be commended. It is Mormon doctrine that I totally object to. It is Poison, and will drag millions to Hell.
I think all the cults engage in some sort of cult speak, to one degree or another. I think the name Jesus Christ might conjure up different concepts in the minds of JWs, Mormons, Iglesia ni Cristo and evangelicals. It's difficult to deal with cult members, because they don't speak the same language we do. Suffice it to say, I am against Mormonism. 😀

[boatbums]

Are you aware that the centurion was a Roman for whom Jesus performed a miracle? Which makes my point.

Not when your point was:

This is the reason why Jesus didn't teach the Romans about his divinity nor did they witness any miracles.

Scripture disproved your assertion that no Roman witnessed any of His miracles. Jesus said he was "sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matt. 15:24). There were many Gentiles (Romans included) who followed Jesus, heard Him preach and believed in Him. It's not that they were "excluded" so much as they weren't specifically chosen to hear His message as a select group until He was rejected "nationally" by the Jewish people - though ALL the first Christians were Jewish.

As to letting Pilate off the hook, Peter had this to say:

Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” (Acts 4:27-30)

[StormPrepper]

You're splitting hairs and missing the point. But whatever.

Acts 4:27-30

That's not the real Bible you're quoting.

[Elsie]

Well hey Els, I am the first to admit that for the most part, Mormons are nice, good natured, hard working, law abiding people. For that they should be commended. It is Mormon doctrine that I totally object to.

This is true.

You'll hear (not on FR; for our Mormon's are strangely silent about the facts of their chosen religion) from a missionary (the young, naïve ones) that the trinity is a FALSE DOCTRINE; arrived at late in 'christianity'. Yet; when you SHOW them the TRINTITY; found in their OWN scriptures; they can NOT defend it and switch to another subject.

[Elsie]

I received a private FreepMail with this statement:

The Christian belief in The Trinity is not biblical and didn’t come into being for over 300 years after the death of Jesus Christ at Nicea.

I sent back the following, saying this discussion should be for all to see; so here is my reply to it, as well as to ALL in this thread:

Sorry, but the bible states otherwise.

The WORD trinity is not in it, but the concept, idea and fact that is, is PLAINLY seen. Just as it is in the BoM.

So here is the REST of the Story (as Paul Harvey was wont to say...)

3 Nephi 9:15
"Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name."

 

3 Nephi 11:22-27, 36
"And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you. Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them--Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them. And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one."

 

2 Nephi 31:21
"And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen."

[Elsie]

You're splitting hairs...

That's not the real Bible you're quoting.

             Uh... OK...

 

 

Here it is from a 'bible' that is ACCUSED of not being translated correctly:   AoF #8

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Acts 4:27-30  King James Version (KJV)

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 

[Elsie]

 Mormon Trinity.

Mormon 7:7

And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

An 1830 statement titled "Testimony of Three Witnesses"—one statement signed by three men rather than three separate statements—was published at the end of the first edition of the Book of Mormon:

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, his brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seeen [sic] the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shewn unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvellous [sic] in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

[Elsie]

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

I've always wondered why SLC has NOT added:

and the Doctrines & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price

To the AoF.

[Elsie]

I've also wondered why SLC has NOT added REMOVED the KJV from their Quad and added the Inspired Version instead.