Posted on 04/29/2017 8:02:13 AM PDT by NYer
As we pray for the success of Pope Francis’ trip to Egypt this weekend, a perfect prayer to use is the oldest known Marian prayer, which in fact, traces back to the pope’s host country.
The oldest known Marian prayer is found on an ancient Egyptian papyrus dating from around the year 250. Today known in the Church as the Sub tuum praesidium, the prayer is believed to have been part of the Coptic Vespers liturgy during the Christmas season.
The original prayer was written in Greek and according to Roseanne Sullivan, “The prayer is addressed to Our Lady using the Greek word Θεοτόκος, which is an adjectival form of Θεοφόρος (Theotokos, or God-bearer) and is more properly translated as ‘she whose offspring is God.'” This helps to prove that the early Christians were already familiar with the word “Theotokos” well before the Third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus ratified its usage.
Below can be found the original Greek text from the papyrus, along with an English translation as listed on the New Liturgical Movement website:
| On the papyrus, we can read: .ΠΟ ΕΥCΠΑ ΚΑΤΑΦΕ ΘΕΟΤΟΚΕΤ ΙΚΕCΙΑCΜΗΠΑ ΕΙΔΗCΕΜΠΕΡΙCTAC AΛΛΕΚΚΙΝΔΥΝΟΥ …ΡΥCΑΙΗΜΑC MONH …HEΥΛΟΓ |
And an English translation could be: Under your mercy we take refuge, Mother of God! Our prayers, do not despise in necessities, but from the danger deliver us, only pure, only blessed. |
More commonly the prayer is translated:
Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
Several centuries later a Latin prayer was developed and is more widely known in the Roman Catholic Church:
| Latin Text Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, Sancta Dei Genetrix. Nostras deprecationes ne despicias in necessitatibus nostris, sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper, Virgo gloriosa et benedicta |
English Text We fly to Thy protection, O Holy Mother of God; Do not despise our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers, O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen. |
The prayer is currently part of the Byzantine, Roman and Ambrosian rites in the Catholic Church and is used specifically as a Marian antiphon after the conclusion of Compline outside of Lent (in the older form of the Roman breviary). It is also a common prayer that has stood the test of time and is a favorite of many Christians, and is the root of the popular devotional prayer, the Memorare.
Same to you, and then some. What you say is not persuasive, and whatever possible humor there may have been, fell flat. As was noted by another, your guesser is broken too.
The very keys given to Peter, in NT scripture, were given to others also (though not explicitly "Mary") and that was my point.
Surely you could have see that, having known of it already? Yet, you would have us focus on some point you thought you were making -- which was no point at all? phhffft.
There was far more than mere mention of "Mary" having "keys to heaven" in what you had jokingly(?) replied to.
Or, was your response there no joke at all, but more was mere diversion away from the main point(s) Elsie had been referring to, himself having brought to us here on this thread some measure of proof for it all ---from Roman Catholic sources?
I'll leave it to you to guess at what the main points were that Elsie was pointing at --- or, you could simply go back and read through it again, this time without allowing oneself be so distracted by shiny objects, like "keys", that the original, greater point ends up lost, swept aside.
Then again, that was the point of your own reply, wasn't it? To sweep the evidence aside by way of snarking it out of main focus of conversation (at that point) by stretching for a way to ridicule the bringer of the news? If so, then same to you, and then some. You want to dish stuff like that out(?) then here, eat some of it yourself;
How's that taste? Yummy? If you don't like that sort of thing -- do not so casually flip it towards my general direction in the future, or else you will be served it forcefully right back in your face.
More seriously;
Again, this different & other point I was making; the very keys given to Peter to bind and to "loose" (loosen, free from bounds) were given to the rest of the apostles also.
I cannot help but to notice and to compare how in RC practice and application the so-called Petrine keys are to be exercised from upon earth ---and "Mary's" alleged keys ballyhoo-od to function from Heaven itself. That serves to highlight & underscore how cult-of-Mary Catholics do not typically pray to Peter, or worship Peter --- not like they pray to Mary, and even some of them worship her.
Those kind of considerations, that comparison in regards to who is prayed to, and who is not, reveal the paucity of the snarky comment you posted at #309.
As for the keys-- the binding and loosening mentioned in Matthew 16, the Lord settled the point a mere two chapters on in Matthew, at what became the same verse number (go look it up) then again re-confirmed much the same principles two more chapters later (Matthew 20:20-28, and in Luke 22:24-30 where it is recorded for us that they began to argue among themselves who would be the greatest among them.
In NT scripture, that there was not a "chief apostle" whom all others owed unilateral subservience towards is further confirmed in general sense, and a bit more specifically at many places from within Paul's Epistles, and confirmed yet again by Peter's own hand in 1 Peter 1:1 wherein he speaks of himself the same way as had Paul wrote of himself (Paul) in his Epistle to the Romans (chapt.1 verse 1), and as a "fellow elder" in 1 Peter 5:1.
This is also confirmed in the first centuries of the Church. In general, all bishops were considered successors to all Apostles. Not a one of them was beyond the correction of any of the others.
Mary is God’s spouse???? Wow. Joseph would be surprised to hear that.
10Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel. Matt 8:10 NASB
The Centurion's faith is greater than anyone else's in Israel. You know who that includes? Yet we don't see Catholics worshipping or praying to the Centurion.
5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne, a book written within and without, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel, proclaiming with a loud voice: Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man was able, neither in heaven, nor on earth, nor under the earth, to open the book, nor to look on it.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open the book, nor to see it.
5 And one of the ancients said to me: Weep not; behold the lion of the tribe of Juda, the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I saw: and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the ancients, a Lamb standing as it were slain, having seven horns and seven eyes: which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne.
8 And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints:
9 And they sung a new canticle, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; because thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God, in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.
10 And hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne, and the living creatures, and the ancients; and the number of them was thousands of thousands,
12 Saying with a loud voice: The Lamb that was slain is worthy to receive power, and divinity, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and benediction.
13 And every creature, which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them: I heard all saying: To him that sitteth on the throne, and to the Lamb, benediction, and honour, and glory, and power, for ever and ever.
14 And the four living creatures said: Amen. And the four and twenty ancients fell down on their faces, and adored him that liveth for ever and ever.
No prohibition from driving a truck into a crowd of people; either.
Many; what a fuzzy word with no meaning numerically.
official: nice qualifier to distance the Head from the PRACTICE of the feet.
don't worship her: I guess you'll be the FIRST Catholic on these threads to DISOWN the teaching of THESE 'church fathers'; right??
Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.
Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.
Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED.
Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.
Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.
She says, "He that shall find Me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord. "Qui me invenerit, inveniet vitam, et hauriet salutem a Domino."
Listen," exclaims St. Bonaventure on these words, "listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the most Blessed Virgin Mary, and you will find life and eternal salvation." "Audite qui ingredi cupitis regnum Dei: Virginem Mariam honorate, et invenietis vitam et salutem perpetuam."-psalt. B.V.ps.48.
Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.
Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven.
Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.
Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.
“The Catholic Church has always and with justice put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God.”
(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Supreme Apostolatus, September 1, 1883.) — [p. 32, no. 104]
“... Yet our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’”
"Only She Can Help You"
by Father Nicholas Gruner, S.T.L., S.T.D. (Cand.)
In this letter introducing The Fatima Crusader Issue 38, Father Gruner discusses the growing lies and deception about Russia's errors and the consecration of that nation. He also reminds us that, while it is urgent that we be informed about and fight for Our Lady's cause, we must ask for Her help and intercession.
 |
| In the Fatima sanctuary, at the exact spot where Our Lady appeared, Father Gruner pays homage to Her while touching the original statue of Fatima. Father Gruner was recently graced with this rare opportunity since normally this sacred image is always protected by a glass covering which completely surrounds it all day long. |
Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
In this article taken from The Glories of Mary, Saint Alphonsus explains that there are countless souls in Heaven who are there now only because Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them there. If a soul persists in true devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, She will certainly lead that soul to Heaven.
The Rosary
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is greatly important that Our Lady insisted on the Rosary. When at Fatima She spoke of the salvation of sinners, of the ruin of souls in hell, of wars and peace, and of the future of our age. Our Lady indicated and recommended the Rosary as the prayer that saves, that brings peace, that preserves the faith.
Hail Mary, Full of Grace
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is truly a treasure to have a strong devotion to Our Lady, for it is She who unites us to Jesus and brings us to Heaven, as this article explains.
Mary, Our Life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
St. Alphonsus de Liguori explains how Mary is our life, how She is our sweetness, and how She is our hope.
The historical record of the worship of Mary accumulated by St. Alphonsus de Liguori who wrote “The Glories of Mary” in the year 1745, which has been since translated into English and printed again and again and again with the full affirmation and imprimatur of the official Roman Catholic Church. In this book there is the sum of all the glories of Mary which has been vouchsafe to the Roman Catholic Church and the Church itself calls upon all its constituents to give Mary that honor she is due. She is identified as Mary, our Queen; Mary, our mother; Mary, our life; Mary, our sweetness; Mary, our hope; Mary, our help; Mary, our Mediatress; Mary, our advocate; Mary, our guardian; and Mary, our salvation. It is said that Mary delivers us from hell, Mary delivers us from purgatory, and Mary leads us to heaven. And it should be said that de Liguori, who collected all the Marion dogma and devotion, was himself one of the most celebrated and revered authorities in the Roman Catholic Church. De Liguori was himself a cardinal in life, and a saint in death.
Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.
At Fatima, Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.
Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.
I urge you to also make some sacrifices as Our Lady of Fatima asked us. For those who are able, do some fasting. If you can, abstain from meat by eating meat only during one meal a day. Try to do this for two days, even ten days or 30 days. Of course we should abstain totally from meat every Friday.
Jesus and Mary — Our Hope
It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.
No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.
http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg2.asp
"Blessed is he whose interior offers the Blessed Virgin Mary a place of repose." Devotion towards the Blessed Virgin remains in all who are the inheritance of Our Lord; that is to say, in all who will praise Him eternally in Heaven.
O, how many blessed souls are now in Heaven who would never have been there had not Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them thither. I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth. Cardinal Hugo, in his commentary on the above text of Ecclesiasticus, says in the name of Mary, "I have caused as many saints in Heaven through Her intercession, who would never have been there but through Her ."
...in the words of St. Ambrose, "Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since Thou hast its keys." "Aperi nobis, O Virgo coelum, cujus claves habes." Nay more, the Church says, that "Thou art its gate."
St. Antoninus tells us "that this divine Mother has already, by Her assistance and prayers, obtained Heaven for us, provided we put no obstacle in the way."23
Hence, says Abbot Guerric, "he who serves Mary, and for whom She intercedes, is as certain of Heaven as if he was already there."24
St. John Damascene also says, "that to serve Mary and be Her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess; for to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and live under Her commands is more than to govern."25
On the other hand, he adds, "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."26
23. "Coeleste nobis regnum, suo interventu auxiliis, et precibus, impetravit."—Paciucch. Sup. Salve Reg. exc. I.
24. "Qui Virgini famulatur, ita securus est de paradiso, ac si esset in paradiso."
25. "Summus honor, servire Mariæ, et de ejus esse familia; etenim ei servire, regnare est; et ejus agi frænis, summa libertas."
26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.
Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp
http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM
Well; ya got the FIRST part right!
Dang!
I thought that I was part of the Bride of Christ!
Who knew God was into polygamy?
(Well; other than the SLC Mormons; that is.)
When a woman consents to have the embryo formed of the spermatozoon and ovum of two other humans implanted and gestated in her womb, she has not become 'the wife' of the man whose sperm was used. If man can do it, how much more perfect can The Creator GOD do it? GOD borrowed Mary's womb WITH HER CONSENT.
These type of arguments are not very Christian.
Read and believe how you feel best. Neither of you are right or wrong.
Go find some good to do.
HMMMmmm...
What is it that we SEE here??
"prayers and requests"???
Not in evidence; again.
No Mother of GOD in evidence.
Read and believe how you feel best. Neither of you are right or wrong.
Go find some good to do.
I am contending for The Faith. Find some other horse to whip for your ego’s sake. If you are unable to see the chasm of difference between catholiciism and Christianity, it is not my fault and you will not be acknowledged as my adjudicator.
The scribes and Pharisees proudly preserved the OT scriptures, yet were also devoted to their own teachings and traditions, and were rebuked for it.
“He did reveal it when Jesus told John, “Behold your mother”
Only commanded to John.
Not you or anyon else.
“She is God’s spouse
False and a heresy.
It’s obvious what happens on these threads. Caucus threads are lucky to get 20 posts but threads that are deep doctrinal debates between RC’s and Christians get hundreds sometimes thousands of posts.
DM, good to hear from you my friend. One of the most civil doctrinal discussions I ever engaged in was with you.
Blessings.
Thank you for your gracious followup reply. It’s been so long, you may not even recall sending it. I’ve been looking for an opportunity to craft a worthy reply. Hopefully this will happen soon; meanwhile, thank you for your patience.
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