Evangelical Apologist Hank Hanegraaff Converts to Eastern Orthodoxy

religiousresearcher.org ^ | 4-10-2017 | Rob Bowman

[Elsie]

Vlad; if you EVER back away from something you’ve wrongly asserted in these threads; could you inform me of it?

[metmom]

I didn’t say it was about “libertarianism”. I said “This appeals to the innate libertarian streak many Americans have...”

Of course you did and everyone can see for themselves that you did.

Denying it does NOT help your credibility.

[.45 Long Colt]

That’s so sad, but I know you are right. Men look for a formula to follow to guarantee salvation. They don’t understand that good works are the natural product of a regenerated heart.

I don’t know how many will come back to this thread, but this video is really helpful for anyone who wants to understand the real issues with Hank’s conversion to Orthodoxy.

Can a Consistent Eastern Orthodox Be the Bible Answer Man?
https://youtu.be/F5EPs9EqIsc

[Elsie]

You want to drag the discussion away from Orthodoxy or Romanism or protestantism, and hijack the theme so you can talk about your Noachide Gentile splinter of Jewry. You really ought to publish this in a thread you create for it, eh?

No ones forcing you to interact with the TarBaby...

[Elsie]

I would desire to die for the love of Thee,
in defense of Thy virginity,
of Thy dignity of Mother of God,
of Thy Immaculate Conception,
should this be necessary,
to uphold these Thy great privileges.

[Elsie]

Those who are saved are already judged.

---

Exodus 32:32-33
 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”  But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

 

Daniel 12:1
 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

 

 

 

Philippians 4:3
 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

 

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

 

 

Revelation 17:8
 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

 

 

Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

Revelation 21:27

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

[Elsie]

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life.

Rome adds, "as long as they fed the hungry and soothed the thirsty."

[Elsie]

Denying it does NOT help your credibility.

But it DOES expose his credulity.

[FourtySeven]

America came to be great because God has blessed the nation. Any attitude that says the only reason this nation is great is because of individualism and the importance of self reliance is wrong. I’m not saying you’re saying that’s the only reason the USA is great but many others do some even on this forum.

This notion is what is toxic and inhuman. Greatness is never achieved by oneself. And we are not made by Him to be alone or to go through life alone. The notion of a “self-made man” is at the heart of all the problems in this world, every single one, because at its root is pride. And we know what comes after pride.

[Mark17]

Then there are the MILLIONS that think they HAVE to do 'good works' to KEEP their salvation!!!

Or at least trust Mary and wear a Brown Scapular!

It's all just dead works. I remember when I was in Catholic grade school, we all wore the scapular. By the time we got to Catholic high school, not one us wore it, but I don't recall why we all stopped wearing it.
I remember my dad was mad at me, because I hated to say the rosary. He was such a hard core Catholic, and hated non Catholics so much, it made me wonder about him. I think the cracks were beginning to form in my non faith. 😀 Before too long, you could drive a truck through those cracks. Praise God for that. 😃

[af_vet_1981]

Yes, the goats standing before God, are not there to determine whether they are going to Heaven or Hell. I think it is to determine the amount of punishment they will get in Hell.

Where does the text indicate that ?

It doesn't. Perhaps you were thinking of this passage which indicates diverse amounts of punishment for the servants.

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Luke, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses thirty two to forty eight,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[Mark17]

It doesn't. Perhaps you were thinking of this passage which indicates diverse amounts of punishment for the servants

No bro, I wasn't even remotely coming within an eternity of thinking of that passage. Not even close. I was referring to Matthew 25, the sheep and goats, not a parable.
Look bro, I am an ex Catholic. You and I will, quite possibly, be light years apart doctrinally, for eternity. So be it. You can continue with your works based salvation. Just don't ask the rest of us to do so. If you can't say for certain that your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life, I would say, to put it on your bucket list.

I at least thank you for putting the verses in black. It is much easier to read, than that blue that you were using. Have a nice eternity. I know I will. 😄

[vladimir998]

“I think you’ve proven my point about not understanding old time Americans.”

I think you’ve proven my point about not understanding the word “libertarian”. Instead of just admitting you’re mistake - a fair mistake since many sciolists would mistakenly assume it was a reference to Libertarianism - you keeping digging your hole deeper.

[vladimir998]

“You’ve really got to be kidding.”

Not one bit.

“If that’s what you think, I doubt if you know what “spiritual” means, to tell you the truth.”

If that’s what you think, I doubt you know what the word “spiritual” means.

[vladimir998]

“BB: (Luther) translated from Greek to common German for his German Bible.”

It wasn’t common German because there was no such thing. He used court Saxon - a particular dialect known to many princes and court officials. He wrote a Bible in a language to impress the important people of Germany. That’s far from “common German”.

Also, he clearly used previous Catholic translations in his work.

[vladimir998]

“Of course you did and everyone can see for themselves that you did.”

Keep reading the posts and you’ll see the links that showed I was right all along. As usual. It amazing to me that sciolist anti-Catholics will post critiques about a word choice when they clearly DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE WORD MEANS. Go back and read the posts, look up the links, and learn. It’s the information age. There’s no reason for anti-Catholics to continually model the pathetic nature of their government school educations.

“Denying it does NOT help your credibility.”

Since I used the correct word from the beginning - and used it correctly - no help is needed. Only people who actually deny one of the known meanings of the word “libertarian” would insist otherwise. This once again shows how anti-Catholicism and ignorance go hand-in-hand. Anti-Catholics always seem to know little or nothing about history, art, the Bible, literature, languages, science, common sense, or logic.

[MHGinTN]

How utterly succinct! Sadly, the pride of the one to whom you have given this meat will not ‘get it’ because pride of works blinds the mind of the soul so that God’s succinct TRUTH cannot find fertile ground.

[xzins]

Fractured fractious evangelicalism has nothing to brag about.

Unity cannot be in their dictionary because they are all about competing with the umpteen forms of evangelicism lining the streets next to each other all across America.

[imardmd1]

"And before him shall be gathered all nations^G1484: and he shall separate them one^nation from another^nation, as a shepherd divideth his ^{flock(s) of}sheep from the ^{flock(s) of}goats: . . ." (Mat 25:32 AV).
. . .
"Then shall the King say unto them^nations on his right hand, Come, ye* blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom^{on earth} prepared for you* from the foundation of the world: . . ." (Mat 25:34 AV).
. . .
"Then shall he say also unto them^nations on the left hand, Depart from me, ye* cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: . . ." (Mat 25:41 AV).
=====

Notes:

Strong's Number G1484

ἔθνος
ethnos
eth'-nos
Strong's Definition:
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe;
specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): -
Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Thayer's Definition:
1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
. . 1a) a company, troop, swarm
2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
. . 2a) the human family
3) a tribe, nation, people group
4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians
Part of Speech: noun neuter
-------
^nation = a geopolitical and/or cultural entity consisting of many individuals incorporated and governed under its hegemony

* = second person plural

=========

These verses are from a parable of Jesus, a passage couched in figurative-literal language. The use by Jesus of "ethnos" is as a metonomy, specifically a synecdoche, in which the people of a cultural entity are represented by the word describing the whole (also used the same way in Mt. 28:19). The AV correctly and definitively represents the conjugation of verbs by using "thee, thou, thine" in translation of the second person singular, and "ye, you, yours" for the second person plural.

Furthermore, pronouns referring to nouns will in Greek be of the same number and gender. In verse 34, "them," (τοις) is dative case, plural, and may be masculine or neuter (in this case neuter). So it is more than one nation "on His right hand," that is, favored by Him. "Them" does not refer to individual persons, it refers to a plurality of geopolitical entities, probably not to cultural entities for reason that there will be no competitive "religion" after this judgment of nations. Likewise, in verse 34, "them" (τοις) also dative, plural, and neuter, refers to disapproved "national" entities, not persons.

What we are presented here is a judgment occurring just after the conclusion of the Great Tribulation, the consignment of two of the unholy trinity to the Lake of Fire (Rev. 19:20), the banishment of Satan to the bottomless pit (Rev. 20:1-3), but before the setting up of Christ's thousand-year earthly Kingdom (Rev. 20:4-5).

Some more conclusions may be drawn from this, but all that is being suggested here is that the judgment here is not of individuals per se, it perhaps is the identification of geopolitical entities just prior to, present during, or remaining at the conclusion of the seven-year Tribulation, whose geographical divisions and mechanics of government are already set up so that they will be acceptable and not confusing to the remaining unsaved humans at the inauguration of Christ's Kingdom of Righteousness and Peace.

That would provide a context of familiarity from which to proceed in revising the customs, habits, and languages of the people now subjugated to the earthly rule of Christ's Viceroy, His regal ancestor David bar Jesse.

In this diagram, the point noted by "1C" is the time of the Judgment of Nations:

A fuller description of this chart can be found at:

The Kingdom of Heaven and The Kingdom of Go

[MHGinTN]

Succinctly exposited. Sadly, catholic minds reject such TRUTH by sweeping it aside as ‘the interpretation of a non-Catholic. Catastrophically, that cuts the catholic mind off from coming alive in the Christ Who has given us eternal life and left for us His Word. But without a dispensational perspective (the Bible is laid out in dispensations) it is nearly impossible to differentiate the Bema seat from The Great White Throne of Judgment, a confusion as shown on this very thread.