Posted on 02/11/2017 6:41:06 AM PST by searchinsany
John received the Revelation prior to AD 70, to encourage and prepare the Church for the events leading to the vision's imminent fulfillment. I believe therefore, Christ's second coming described in the Revelation took place during the great and the dreadful day of the Lord in AD 70. On that 'day' of judgement, Old Covenant Israel ended with the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem; the remaining survivors of the Jewish nation were enslaved and dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. Futurists, Dispensationalism in particular, adamantly oppose this view by insisting on a post-AD 70 date, in an attempt to refute Preterism. However, the AD 95 date is heavily dependent on the writings of certain Church Fathers, primarily a 2nd century quotation taken from the writing of Irenaeus, found in the works of Eusebius, Book 5, and Chapter 8.
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“Robinsons preterist view was not just held by him, there were many many others.”
When you find yourself agreeing with a false teacher, who believes heresy, it is time to reexamine the basis upon which you both reached the same position.
So, are these people heretics:
Luther, Knox, Calvin, and the Protestant theologians in the 1600s & 1700s ?
And why doesn’t Revelation refer to the temples destruction as having occured in the —past— ?
Really??? Where's the new kingdom with Jesus sitting on the throne??? Where are the lions laying down with the lambs???
You reference less than a handful of verses from Revelation...Those don't even cover part of a chapter...What about the rest of the book???
And Jesus came back 2000 years ago??? Where is he??? You really think what we now have is all God had to offer Christians???
And I like this one:
John was to measure the temple, the altar, and them that worshipped, which strongly implies the temple was still standing when he wrote the Revelation.
Revelation 11:2 ' But the court - is given unto the Gentiles - The measuring of the temple probably refers to its approaching destruction, and the termination of the whole Levitical service; and this we find was to be done by the Gentiles, (Romans), who were to tread it down forty-two months; i.e., just three years and a half, or twelve hundred and sixty days. This must be a symbolical period.'
John was to measure the temple, the altar, and them that worshipped, which strongly implies the temple was still standing when he wrote the Revelation.
So God had John measure the temple before it was torn down...Why??? HaHaHa, you gotta be kidding me...God had John measure the temple so after it was torn down, there'd be a written record of the measurements so it could be built again...
The Jews in Israel know that...They have everything in place to build the new temple (plus the measurements) and the priesthood which will run it...
Well, if you say so. I wouldn't have myself.
And why doesn’t Revelation refer to the temples destruction as having occured in the —past— ?
Why do you insist it - should - ?
So you think Adam and Eve were like you are, now??? All the people on the planet that I've seen are like Adam and Eve, AFTER their first sin...Including Christians...Interesting...
I was sitting at my computer one evening the first time I realized this, so I said to God, “If this is true, then I would like to walk with you in the cool of the evening,” (as he did with Adam). At once, I will filled with the overwhelming experience of the presence of God - and it lasted for what seemed like a long time.
Yes, I believe that we have been FULLY RESTORED in Jesus - why would He do all of that for less than everything?
Really??? The Romans knew what CMX was but couldn't figure out MMX??? I don't believe you...Not for a millisecond...
Makes sense to me.
I jumped the gun on that last one...Sorry...But that apparently is the position the Preterists take...
Gettin' a little confused here...You say you were restored to the position of Adam and Eve, temporarily???
Not.....Check your history of the Bible.
No! Jesus came so that ALL would be fully restored (through Grace). The obedience of the Old Covenant is replaced by Faithfulness (in the completed work of Jesus Christ) through the New Covenant. And living life in the completed work of Jesus is true Joy!!
“OK, I do —NOT— consider Luther, Knox, Calvin, and the Protestant theologians in the 1600s & 1700s to be heretics. They taught a preterist viewpoint, with which I agree.”
... why wasn’t this idea taught before the 1600s??
“and —IF— the temple had already been destroyed by the time Revelations was written, Revelations would have made note of it.”
... Then it would follow from your theory that all books would refer to every major event that proceeded the inspiration of the book - the fall, the exodus, the captivity, etc.
... this is demonstrably false.
... far better to understand and acknowledge the purpose of the book and the type of literature, than to impose a standard not adhered to in Scripture.
... in short, your argument is built on a faulty presupposition. I don’t find it consistent with Scripture. It presupposes a fact it wishes to be true in order to support an idea it also presupposes.
Now, if that idea brings you some kind of comfort as a personal practice or personal idea, fine. I wish you luck with it. Unfortunately, you will miss out on the richness of the revelation, as God unfolded it.
Still, it is your call and I wish you well.
Welcome to FReerepublic. Did you get invited here to help with the recent preterist promotion campaign?
Indeed. As far as I’m concerned, the easiest way to show these claims false is to simply note that the two resurrections of the dead, prophesied not only in Revelation, but by the apostles, and by Jesus, obviously haven’t happened, or we would not be here arguing about this.
The only way preterists can answer this, in my experience, is to claim that the events didn’t happen as the Bible predicted they would, but only happened in some “spiritual” sense that basically renders them meaningless, and falsifies the promises associated with them.
Jesus had to deal with people making similar arguments, so I’ll let His response answer these modern-day Sadducees:
“18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
19 Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man’s brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.”
Since we are not like “angels which are in heaven”, and we still marry, then according to Jesus, we have not been resurrected. Thus the two resurrections prophesied multiple times, both inside and outside Revelation, can not have taken place.
Yes, I’ve found preterists like to frame a false “either/or” argument, implying that if dispensationalism is incorrect, preterism must be correct. They often assume anyone who isn’t a preterist must be a dispensationalist and if they can poke holes in dispensationalism, it will bolster their own claims.
That reasoning neglects to take into account that there are other kinds of futurists besides dispensationalists, and it also neglects to take into account that futurists existed from the very beginning of the church, before either preterism or dispensationalism were invented.
“Satan as an independent an opposing force to G-d Almighty, Creator of the universe and all that is in it...that is an interesting concept, one that utterly contradicts the idea of an omnipotent Creator. IOW, blasphemy.
Listen, Satan is an angel. He/It was mentioned in Jewish literature (most specifically the Book of Job, as el Satan, the tempter) as the angel in charge of tempting humans.
At G-ds direction, and to exactly the degree that He wants.
So Satan is G-ds SERVANT, not His enemy or rival.”
You might want to read the accounts of Satan in the rest of the Old Testament and not just the book of Job, since these verses contradict your assertion:
“1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?” Zech 3:1-2
God rebuked Satan, so Satan is clearly not God’s servant, as God’s servants do His will and are not rebuked for doing His will. Also, the Hebrew word for Satan means “enemy” or “adversary”, another strong point against your claim that Satan is not God’s enemy.
“the hold that 1000 was the largest number the Romans had and would use the word for 1000 or any amount bigger then a 1000”
Too bad the Romans didn’t write the Book of Revelation, and it certainly wasn’t written in Latin!
We can also dispute that line of reasoning with internal evidence from Revelation itself, since it contains numbers greater than 1000 in the text:
“4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.” Rev 7:4-5
“6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.’ Rev 12:6
“Plus the Roman Catholics before and during those times.”
I hear preterists claim this fairly often but it is bunk.
Refer to the Catholic Catechism, section “The Last Judgement”:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2P.HTM
and section “Hope of the New Heaven and Earth”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2Q.HTM
Those clearly show that the Catholic church believes the second coming of Christ, the last judgement, the universal resurrection, and the creation of a new heaven and new earth are all future events, unlike the preterists.
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