Posted on 09/13/2016 11:11:40 AM PDT by fishtank
Is the Jesus of Mormonism the Jesus of the Bible?
Aaron Shafovaloff
Published on Jul 16, 2016
James White dialogs with Alma Allred.
James White is a Christian apologist and founded Alpha and Omega Ministries (http://www.aomin.org/).
Alma Allred is a Mormon apologist and an LDS Institute teacher (http://byteline.blogspot.com/).
This event took place on July 15, 2016. It was organized by Christ Presbyterian Church in Salt Lake City (http://www.gospelutah.org/). A special thanks to Jason Wallace.
The most problematic matter facing Mormons with regard to their view of Christ. You see, in their attempt to evade charges of polytheism — which, of course, is the belief in or worship of more than one god — Mormons end up prohibiting prayer to Jesus. Mormons confess that they believe in the existence of many gods but pray only to God the Father. Well, in light of the Bible’s explicit command to pray to Jehovah (cf. Deut. 4:7; 2 Chron. 7:14; Pss. 5:2; 32:6; Jer. 29:7, 12), it’s simply incredible that Mormons refuse to pray to Jesus while yet acknowledging Him to be Jehovah! In addition, let me point you to passages like John 14:14 and Romans 10:12 which demonstrate beyond the shadow of a doubt that believers ought to pray to Jesus.
Secondly -In Mormonism, Jesus is a creation, the product of relations between god and his goddess wife who used to be people from another world (McConkie, Bruce, Mormon Doctrine, p. 192, 321, 516, 589). Jesus is the literal spirit brother of the devil and you and I (McConkie, p. 192, 589). Also, in Mormon theology, God has a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine & Covenants 130:22) as does his wife, and together they produce spirit offspring in heaven who inhabit human bodies on earth.
Seriously? This is Psalms 91-4:
He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
This has been a wonderful discussion of basic Christian Theology pointing out the enormous ignorance of even the fundamentals of salvation through belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God ( not David). I actually saw someone saying you had to believe Jn 3:16 “out of the KJV”!! What total ignorance. The KJV changed God’s word from its actual meaning to somethings not even close. Did you know that “Church” was the replacement for the Greek word “ The called out” ? Totally different concepts. Did you also know that “born again” is not in God’s word? It was a distortion of the Aramaic “Born from above” Totally different concepts. The KJV was rewritten to gain control over the autonomous children of God and put them under central control so they sit there like sheep in a mortgaged building with an over seer. “Church” was an English directive of the word “Circe or Kirke” meaning circle which was the worship configuration of the Pagans. Where does this Sunday thing come from? Tithing is not even in the New Testament. anyway, I enjoyed the discussion.
We are also to put our faith in the complete work of Jesus, our righteousness is filthy rags.
To Mormons their work contributes to their salvation.
There is also Psalm 54:1
Have mercy on me, my God, have mercy on me, for in you I take refuge. I will take refuge in the shadow of your wings until the disaster has passed.
So now God is a big chicken??
Sure, John 3:16 tells us all the believing ones will not perish and have everlasting life, but that is not the whole gospel, not even close. It says nothing of sin, nothing of repentance, nothing of the resurrection, nothing of imputation, nothing of Christ as a substitute for sinners, etc. That kind of mere Christianity approach will send people straight to Hell. We can say we believe in Jesus and believe all sorts of wrong things about who He was, why He came, and what He accomplished. And when we do that, we believe another Jesus and another gospel.
It’s dangerous to try to say any one verse is the gospel, but if I had to pick just one it would be this:
“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
—2 Corinthians 5:21
Had no idea they used Psalms 91-4 in that context. That’s quite a stretch. But then again, I don’t expect I will ever rule over a planet.
I wouldn’t want to!
The inhabitants would just irritate me.
They don’t use it because they don’t know it’s there. I use it to show them the ludicrous argument that their God is of flesh and bone from passages in the OT showing God with physical attributes just like we are.
But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” - Acts 15:1
You mentioned Acts 15 and said they weren’t teaching the gospel In the first place. I agree because they were adding to it, rendering it a false gospel. And it’s clear from verse 1 they were attempting to add circumcision, just as I stated earlier. They were adding to the gospel of grace, just like Salt Lake City does and just like Rome does. The Bible is clear, grace and works cannot mix. It’s either by grace alone as the Bible says or it’s of works. It can’t be both. Any religion that adds law-keeping for salvation isn’t biblical Christianity.
“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” Romans 11:6
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
—Ephesians 2:8-10
Notice the Mormon carefully avoids saying that “Jesus is God”, since they don’t actually believe that. They believe he is simply the eldest among the spirits created by God, which would make him not much different from the angels and, of course, completely incapable of being our savior.
Joey Smith couldn’t even read human languages correctly (as his Egyptian translations prove), no way he was going to correctly figure out the secret name of God :)
I don’t think the KJV translators were trying to impose on the text. I think they were just going word by word, phrase by phrase for the most part.
The same with the NIV, NASB, etc.
I believe in God’s sovereignty over believers.
“Yet, Joseph Smith would have. He came to earth at the request of God, only to hide his “Name.” I don’t think so. Makes no sense to me. As it was not God who wanted his name hidden.”
So then none of the authors of the New Testament were sent by God either because they “hid” the name Yahweh as well. Every time the NT authors quote the OT they “hide” YHWH under “LORD”. I’m just saying...
I think LDS is a sham. I don’t think your reasoning, however, really works here.
Yep. They try to explain it away by saying that they just mean that Jesus and Satan are brothers in the sense that God is the father of all spirits, but when you delve into it, you find they actually believe Jesus is merely the first among the created spirit beings, which is an even bigger heresy!
Actually, you have to take God at His word and believe that he will bring about what He has promised. He’ll see you get through any necessary steps.
“Philippians 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Well, yeah..
But what are you believing in?
A false Jesus and you are saved by your own works?
“They believe in Jesus as the Son of God , just like you and me.”
My God didn’t create Jesus, so they don’t believe as I do, speak for yourself.
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