Those born from above have the spark of Holy Spirit LIFE in their human spirit> Without that spark, one is not in the family!No priest can control God, so only GOD can put HIS LIFE in a person. To believe in Whom GOD sent for our salvation is to be born from above.
That Holy Spirit spark is so very important when the Snatching away of the CHURCH, the TRUE BODY of CHRIST Believers happens. The presence of that spark of Holy Spirit Life will resonate to the Angel call and Trumpet sound, to instantly transform the believers into immortal, glorified beings who will disappear from the field of senses of the unsaved.
The believers will be as invisible as the being to whom the hand was attached in Daniel Chapter Five. So many will be snatched into the clouds that there may be a visible 'glow-trail' but individuals will no longer be in the same spacetime coordinates as those not raptured.
John wrote in one of his letters that when Jesus appears in the Air, we shall see Him as He really is, in His glorified state, because when He comes we shall be like HIM. We shall be in the same spacetime coordinate system as He is, as HE used to enter the locked and shuttered room, as He used to leave the stone tomb without rolling away the stone, as He used to disappear from view of the two disciples for whom He blessed and broke the bread.
Take note of the posts soon to arrive ...
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
.
MHG, I agree with much that you posted.
There are some fine points though that are less than scriptural.
First, there is no “church” mentioned in the unadorned scriptures.
It is the ancient assembly, the Kehillah of the Hebrew scriptures mistranslated. That assembly began with Adam, and was always hopeful of the coming perfect sacrifice that would enable the salvation of those that had been faithful to the word delivered by Yehova at various times to his prophets.
There is no difference whatsoever between OT and NT members of that body.
As to the “invisibility” of a changed person, Yeshua explained that to Nicodemus in John ch 3. The ability to move as invisibly as the wind yet leaving audible evidence of their presence.
Yeshua’s message to Nicodemus was roughly the same as Paul’s message in 1Corinthians ch 15. We must be changed to survive in the relm of Yehova.
We must be changed, at the First Resurrection, because the Earth and Heavens are scheduled to “retreat from his face,” and burn with fervent heat, because there will be found no place for them. (or us if we are not so changed)
Where our Bibles say that Yeshua will come “in the air” it is more likely that the letters they had copied meant “in the spirit,” since in the Greek language the same word, Pnuema is used for both.
We do know that that event will not be in any way secret, since Yeshua told us in several places that he would never come in secret, and that there would be great dread among those not taken at that time.
Yeshua is not a part of any “space - time” system at all. It is that space-time illusion that will be expiring.
He exists outside of time and space, and has full control of that illusion. We will be joining him when we are changed.
Belief is indeed the key, but it is in no way intellectual belief.
It is belief in the sense used in the Eastern languages and cultures, which requires total emulation of the one to whom one is discipled.
.
Yup. That's right. The Rooderites don't get it, as other doctrines they are blind to, that they think are silly (1 Cor. 2:14). They're here with a flash, they twist the scriptures like a party-popper (2 Pet. 3:3,4,16), they go bang, and one day they will disappear, to be viewed by the saints but once more, with tears. but the tears will be shed in heaven, to be finally wiped away. There are not going to be any tears in Hell or the Lake of Fire. There's not even going to be spit.
As you well know. There's a time for winning souls, but I think now is nearing the last time for warning souls.
When Jesus appears in the Air:
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess. 4:17 in the AV).
"Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air: and so shall we be always with the Lord" (1 Thess. 4:16 in the DRB).
"deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus" (1 Thess. 4:17 in the Vulgate; rapier = to rapture).
"επειτα ημεις οι ζωντες οι περιλειπομενοι αμα συν αυτοις αρπαγησομεθα εν νεφελαις εις απαντησιν του κυριου εις αερα και ουτως παντοτε συν κυριω εσομεθα" )1 Thess. 4:17 in the TR; ἁρπάζω = to snatch).
Strongs Number G726
Strong's Definition: ἁρπάζω
harpazō
har-pad'-zo
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
Total KJV occurrences: 13
Thayer's Definition:
1) to seize, carry off by force
2) to seize on, claim for one’s self eagerly
3) to snatch out or away
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G138 = to take for oneself
==== examples ======
Mt. 11:12 AV = take by force (violently; DRB = bear away (violently); Vulgate = rapit (violenti)
Mt. 13:19 AV = catcheth away; DRB = catcheth away; Vulgate = rapit
Jn. 6:15 AV = take by force; DRB = take by force; Vulgate = raperent
Jn. 10:12 AV = catcheth; DRB = casteth; Vulgate = rapit
Jn. 10:28,29 AV = pluck; DRB = pluck, snatch; Vulgate = rapiet, rapere (infinitive)
Acts 8:39 AV = caught away; DRB = took away; Vulgate = rapuit
Acts 23:10 AV = take him by force; DRB = take by force; Vulgate = rapere (infinitive)
2 Cor. 12:2,4 AV = caught up; DRB = caught up; Vulgate = raptum, raptus
1 Thess. 4:17 AV = caught up; DRB = ; Vulgate = rapiemur
Jude v. 23 AV = pull out (of the fire); DRB = pulling out (of the fire); Vulgate = rapientes
Rev. 12:5 AV = caught up; DRB = taken up; Vulgate = raptus
====== explanation =======
It's pretty clear, folks, that the Latin infinitive rapere means to catch away, take away by force (sometimes violently), to pluck out of, to bear away (violently), or to pull out of (with a sense of being done very quickly).
These are all Jerome's rendering of the Greek infinitive harpadzo. Any confusion comes from the Latin Bible commentators (both RCC and Anglican scholars) created the verb infinitive "to rapture" which was incoporated into the English vocabulary.
There is another meaning, not the Biblical one, which is to be overcome by ecstatic response to a physical or emotional stimulus, but this is not a description of what we are discussing.
Look, FRiends, it's about time we stopped wrangling over whether or not Jesus is going to rapture, to snatch away His Own True Believer-Disciple-Priest-Friends, and only them.
The souls of all the Old Testament saints, as well as those New Testament saints to whom He came, but whose bodies are already dead, are in spirit and soul at this moment in heaven. They will all be with the LORD when He comes for His Own live ones.
You and I won't even have time to say "Au revoir" to the misled, toxically misdoctrinated Rooderites, whose fanciful views of the Bible passages will never hold.
It is very clear that at the moment of the catching up of saints from the earth, it will be when in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, the batting of an eyelash, their souls, each and all, will be joined to a new, everlasting, perfect body for each like that of Jesus, for each of us shall see Him as He is, in His Glorification.
Furthermore, please note that in the verse in view, all these newly-made completed eternal beings will ever be with the Lord. That means BEYOND QUESTION they will never, ever have to go to a Purgatory, let alone to a Hades/Hell/Sheol and Lake of Tormenting Fire.
That also means that those humans who are not caught up alive of from the grave WITHOUT QUESTION shall suffer eternal torment in the place that is reserved for death, Hell, Satan, His Angels, and those humans who choose to remain with him, either actively, or by default.
So be it.
Tell them this once more:
There's a single moment of rapture coming. Step up to the plate. Do what you gotta do. Come to grips with spiritual reality. Quit arguing. It gets you nowhere, man.