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10 Things You Should Know about Catholics and the American Founding
http://www.catholicworldreport.com ^ | July 4, 2016 | Bradley J. Birzer

Posted on 07/04/2016 2:22:59 PM PDT by NKP_Vet

In my essay “10 Things You Should Know About the American Founding” I focused on some little-known facts about the American Founding in general. The final three of those “10 things” mentioned Catholics and Catholicism, including how “every colony had some form of anti-Catholic law, except for Pennsylvania. The farther north one journeyed, the stronger the anti-Catholicism became.” This is not to suggest that Catholicism is incompatible with the Founding, but simply to note that Catholics were usually, at best, the odd men out and were to many colonists the dire symbol of all that was wrong with the world.

In celebrating the 240th anniversary of American independence and the ratification of the Declaration of Independence, it’s worth remembering the role that Catholics and Catholicism played in 1776.

1. With the exception of Maryland—but only for a bit—each of the English colonies along the North American coastline despised and feared Roman Catholics as well as Catholicism. For most English Protestants, whether Reformed and Presbyterian or low-Church Anglican, Catholicism represented the corruption of the Christian faith. Catholics, far from being the brethren of Protestants, were the worst enemies—far worse than pagans or even Muslims. Why? Because Catholics, in the eyes of those Protestants, should have known better; that is, they should have seen the errors of their Catholic ways. In many respects, it was a case of nearness creating division. In New England, beginning in the 1640s, no citizen could enter a church on a Sunday morning without bearing both a bible and a firearm. When service ended, the men of the congregation secured the area before allowing women and children to leave the church, just in case Catholics might be out raiding that day.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicworldreport.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History
KEYWORDS: catholic
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To: NKP_Vet
Well, after the disaster of Henry VIII and his fight with the Catholic Church about divorce remarry, it's understandable why English felt that way.

Henry DID finally get his son, but that son died early and a WOMAN ruled England. Henry was the big loser after all. A woman STILL "rules" England. Henry must still be rolling in his grave.

Divorced.

Beheaded.

Died.

Divorced.

Beheaded.

Survived.

The "Elizabeth Taylor" of the early 16th century. Although Liz wasn't queen...but she WAS ELIZABETH...Taylor.
A few coinkidinks here. :o)

21 posted on 07/04/2016 5:51:44 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Falconspeed
‘Progressives have continued to assault Catholics at nearly every level...’ even at FR.
One wonders WHY non-Catholics CARE so much about what happens in the Catholic Church.
WHY do they care at all? I don't get it.

Every religion has rusty pipes conveying water of teachings. The Catholic Church has all kinds of rusty pipes carrying the best doctrine on earth. Like what? Every person is immortal. Every child deserves a mother and father. Every students deserves the freedom to study the Bible. Thus, we have human rights, safe communities and K-12 schools. Please do not blame abortion, divorce, dangerous cities and boring schools on the Catholic Church. Blame them on the citizens failing to study the Church and one of its products: the Bible.
I wonder if many non-Catholics know that there WAS NO New Testament until almost 400 A.D. The CATHOLIC CHURCH was busy trying to get/gather it together, going through the THOUSANDS of documents, deciding WHICH were true and which weren't.

Protestants are now reading the words of God as put to pen by the then "infant" Catholic Church. The Church decided on what Protestants would eventually read...and then, oddly enough, those same Protestants would protest against the VERY Church that gave them the glorious New Testament for them to protest.

HOW IRONIC.

Please do not blame abortion, divorce, dangerous cities and boring schools on the Catholic Church. Blame them on the citizens failing to study the Church and one of its products: the Bible.
People ALWAYS need someone to BLAME when bad things happen. The Catholic Church has been the "whipping boy" for a long time. Nothing new there.
You NAILED it, though, when you spoke about NOT studying the Bible.

It is also true that SOME folks like to, er, "ignore" SOME passages of the Bible. ONE example is Jesus' words about divorce-remarriage:

Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate” (Matthew 19:6).

But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:32).

Henry VIII knew those verses as well but decided that Jesus' words weren't convenient to HIS plans.

22 posted on 07/04/2016 6:12:11 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Jumper
Putting the Pope between God and Man is bad; putting communists between man and God is about the same, no?

Your comparison is like comparing apples and Vespas, no connection whatsoever.

The Pope is merely a vicar, which is a representative or deputy on earth for the Lord. The same position was STARTED by St. Peter.
One can visit St. Peter's Basilica in Rome and see the list of ALL the popes in the last 2000 years, with Peter's name at the top. They weren't all the best of popes, but our good Lord DID leave His Church in the hands of His "vicars."
And yes, the list IS engraved in granite.

For the commies, there IS NO God, so the question is moot.

23 posted on 07/04/2016 6:18:17 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Mercat
Hebrewization (my made-up word)

Not bad.

24 posted on 07/04/2016 6:21:17 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Salvation

“Protestants, however, were rarely tolerant of even other Protestants...”

Certainly different denominations expressed their differences, but the Church of England in the American colony was unbelievably tolerant of others. You have but witness the different religions allowed to practice their faith. Animosities? certainly! But they lived together.

Contrast the American colonist experience with Roman Catholic colonies where no other denominations were allowed under penalty of death.


25 posted on 07/04/2016 7:05:34 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: Salvation

One of those letters thanks France (specifically mentioning their Catholic faith) for their support during the war for independence. Without the assistance of France and Spain, the war may not have been won.


26 posted on 07/04/2016 7:17:02 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: cloudmountain

Bravo. Excellent insights. Excellent html skills. St. Jerome, pray for us.

Sure, we have had some real losers in Rome. However, the gift of the papacy is to be appreciated as a permanent gift from the Lord.


27 posted on 07/04/2016 7:33:34 PM PDT by Falconspeed ("Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others." Robert Louis Stevenson (1850-94))
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To: NKP_Vet
Shortest book ever written: Muslims and the American Founding
28 posted on 07/04/2016 7:38:04 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (Diversity is Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama sharing the same jail cell.)
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To: Salvation; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
2. Protestants, however, were rarely tolerant of even other Protestants:

And traditional RCs are hardly tolerant of their liberal counterparts, while a historical contemporary RC with a more weightier opinion found:

Upon my arrival in the United States, the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more did I perceive the great political consequences resulting from this state of things, to which I was unaccustomed. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom pursuing courses diametrically opposed to each other; but in America I found that they were intimately united, and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Alexis de Tocqueville (1805”1859. French Catholic political thinker and historian; best known for his two volume, "Democracy in America") ” The sects that exist in the United States are innumerable. They all differ in respect to the worship which is due to the Creator; but they all agree in respect to the duties which are due from man to man. Each sect adores the Deity in its own peculiar manner, but all sects preach the same moral law in the name of God...Moreover, all the sects of the United States are comprised within the great unity of Christianity, and Christian morality is everywhere the same...

n the United States the sovereign authority is religious, and consequently hypocrisy must be common; but there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth...

The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live... Thus religious zeal is perpetually warmed in the United States by the fires of patriotism. These men do not act exclusively from a consideration of a future life; eternity is only one motive of their devotion to the cause. If you converse with these missionaries of Christian civilization, you will be surprised to hear them speak so often of the goods of this world, and to meet a politician where you expected to find a priest. (Democracy in America, [New York: A. S. Barnes & Co., 1851), pp. 331, 332, 335, 336-7, 337; http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/religion/ch1_17.htm)

And another authority of more weight than thou also stated,

And the Divine Being seems to have manifested His approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindness by which the different sects treat each other, and by the remarkable prosperity with which He has been please to favor the whole country. (Benjamin Franklin, "Information to those who would Remove to America" In Franklin, Benjamin. The Bagatelles from Passy. Ed. Lopez, Claude A. New York: Eakins Press. 1967; http://mith.umd.edu//eada/html/display.php?docs=franklin_bagatelle4.xml. Also, John Gould Curtis, American history told by contemporaries .... Volume 3, p. 26)

29 posted on 07/04/2016 7:59:31 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: Falconspeed
he Catholic Church has all kinds of rusty pipes carrying the best doctrine on earth. Like what?...Every students deserves the freedom to study the Bible.

That is a relatively new pipe, bought from Protestants.

30 posted on 07/04/2016 8:02:35 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: Salvation
His letters to the Catholics of the United States as well as to the Hebrews of Newport remain documents of highest thought and repute, models of how to overcome and dispel bigotry.

You mean in contrast to historical RC "bigotry," which opposed the very concept of freedom of religion, and separation of church and state, and which was a prime reason for American "bigotry" against Catholicism. Indeed, if American Catholics were are medieval Catholics were supposed to be then they would not have obtained their freedom, as the fears of American patriots would have been realized.

Pope Gregory XVI: It is insanity to believe that liberty of conscience and liberty of worship are the inalienable rights of every citizen. From this stinking fountain of Indifferentism flows the erroneous and absurd opinion, or rather derangement, that liberty of conscience must be asserted and vindicated for everyone. This most pestilential error opens the door to the complete and immoderate liberty of opinions which works such widespread harm both in Church and State. (Pope Gregory XVI, “Mirari Vos,” August 15,1832)


Pope Pius IX, Error Condemned: Every man is free to embrace and to profess that religion which, led by the light of reason, he shall consider to   true. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851. (Ven. Pope Pius IX, “Syllabus of Modern Errors,”December 8, 1864; http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm)

• Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors):
[It is error to believe that] Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship.” (Section X, Errors Having Reference to Modern Liberalism, #78. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM)


Pope Pius IX, Error condemned: In this age of ours, it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion be the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other cults whatsoever. In certain regions of Catholic name, it has been praiseworthily sanctioned by law that men immigrating there be allowed to have public exercises of any form of worship of their own. (Pope Pius IX, “Syllabus of Modern Errors,”December 8, 1864)

Pope Innocent III: The crucifiers of Christ ought to be held in continual subjection. (Pope Innocent III, “Epistle to the Hierarchy of France,” July 15, 1205)


Thomas Aquinas: It would be licit, according to custom, to hold the Jews in perpetual servitude because of their crime. (St. Thomas Aquinas, “De Regimine Judaeorum”)

Canons of the Ecumenical Fourth Lateran Council, 1215:

We excommunicate and anathematize every heresy that raises against the holy, orthodox and Catholic faith which we have above explained; condemning all heretics under whatever names they may be known, for while they have different faces they are nevertheless bound to each other by their tails, since in all of them vanity is a common element. Those condemned, being handed over to the secular rulers of their bailiffs, let them be abandoned, to be punished with due justice, clerics being first degraded from their orders. 

As to the property of the condemned, if they are laymen, let it be confiscated; if clerics, let it be applied to the churches from which they received revenues. But those who are only suspected, due consideration being given to the nature of the suspicion and the character of the person, unless they prove their innocence by a proper defense, let them be anathematized and avoided by all 1-intil they have made suitable satisfaction; but if they have been under excommunication for one year, then let them be condemned as heretics.

Secular authorities, whatever office they may hold, shall be admonished and induced and if necessary compelled by ecclesiastical censure, that as they wish to be esteemed and numbered among the faithful, so for the defense of the faith they ought publicly to take an oath that they will strive in good faith and to the best of their ability to exterminate in the territories subject to their jurisdiction all heretics pointed out by the Church; so that whenever anyone shall have assumed authority, whether spiritual or temporal, let him be bound to confirm this decree by oath.

But if a temporal ruler, after having been requested and admonished by the Church, should neglect to cleanse his territory of this heretical foulness, let him be excommunicated by the metropolitan and the other bishops of the province. If he refuses to make satisfaction within a year, let the matter be made known to the supreme pontiff, that he may declare the ruler's vassals absolved from their allegiance and may offer the territory to be ruled lay Catholics, who on the extermination of the heretics may possess it without hindrance and preserve it in the purity of faith; the right, however, of the chief ruler is to be respected as long as he offers no obstacle in this matter and permits freedom of action.

The same law is to be observed in regard to those who have no chief rulers (that is, are independent). Catholics who have girded themselves with the cross for the extermination of the heretics, shall enjoy the indulgences and privileges granted to those who go in defense of the Holy Land. (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp)

 We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication. — Pope Alexander IV (1254-1261) in “Sextus Decretalium”, Lib. V, c. ii: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-51631.html


Quinisext Ecumenical Council, Canon 64: That a layman must not publicly make a speech or teach, thus investing himself with the dignity of a teacher, but, instead, must submit to the ordinance handed down by the Lord, and to open his ear wide to them who have received the grace of teaching ability, and to be taught by them the divine facts thoroughly.

31 posted on 07/04/2016 8:16:50 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: kearnyirish2

No protestant was ever ran out of Europe by Catholics. They were ran out by other protestants.

If not for Catholics, most notably Marquis de Lafayette, it is seriously doubtful the colonists could have defeated England, his contributions were immense.


32 posted on 07/04/2016 8:17:47 PM PDT by NKP_Vet (In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle,stand like a rock ~ T, Jefferson)
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To: cloudmountain
I wonder if many non-Catholics know that there WAS NO New Testament until almost 400 A.D. The CATHOLIC CHURCH was busy trying to get/gather it together, going through the THOUSANDS of documents, deciding WHICH were true and which weren't.

Actually writings were Scripture regardless of lack of general acceptance, and it was the people in general who establish writings as being of God, while there was no indisputable canon for RCs until after the death of Luther, who was one of many scholars who doubted or rejected apocryphal books down thru as the centuries and right into Trent.

Regardless, what is import and argument behind your "we have you the Bible" statement? That if we agree with Rome in this then we should agree with all she officially teaches And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that such (and those who claim to be their successors) possesses ensured veracity? Thus any who knowingly dissent from the latter must be in rebellion to God?

33 posted on 07/04/2016 8:30:18 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: NKP_Vet

The Waldensians were run out of Italy in the late 1800’s. They settled here in NC. Italy finally granted full religious freedom to the few who remained in there in 1984.


34 posted on 07/04/2016 8:31:46 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: ladyjane

$87 million a year to re-settle Muslim invaders.


35 posted on 07/04/2016 8:37:55 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: daniel1212
The Pope is only infallible when speaking about morality, nothing else. He speaks from the Word of God...and those are God's words, not the Pope's. But you knew that.

About anything else, one can dissent all one wants.

36 posted on 07/04/2016 9:21:47 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Falconspeed
1. Bravo. Excellent insights.
2. Excellent html skills.
3. St. Jerome, pray for us.
4. Sure, we have had some real losers in Rome. However, the gift of the papacy is to be appreciated as a permanent gift from the Lord.

1. and 2. Thank you.

3. AMEN!

4. So true. I guess I just don't care to read that kind of hatred deep dislike of our Pope from Catholic FReepers. One can only suppose that he hadn't read about some of the earlier Popes who "bought" the Papacy. THEY would make Pope Francis look like a shining star.

"Permanent gift from our Lord"...EXCELLENT.
I hadn't thought of the papacy that way, but it IS. Thank you for that!

I hope your July 4th was full of joy and hot dogs and family.

.

.

I had THREE hot dogs today. Yummers!

37 posted on 07/04/2016 9:29:21 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: NKP_Vet

France ran out the Huegenots (many came to North America); as a Catholic I’ll admit the religious wars went both ways.


38 posted on 07/05/2016 3:20:34 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: NKP_Vet
Because Catholics, in the eyes of those Protestants, should have known better; that is, they should have seen the errors of their Catholic ways.

240 years later and do they YET know any better?

39 posted on 07/05/2016 4:46:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
I thought it was the Iroquois
40 posted on 07/05/2016 4:47:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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