Posted on 01/13/2016 3:27:01 PM PST by NYer
Some answers from St. Justin Martyr, St. Irenaeus, St. Hippolytus, St. Gregory of Nyssa, and St. Ephrem
Readings for Sunday, Jan. 10, 2016:
Is 42:1-4, 6-7 or Is 40:1-5, 9-11
Ps 29:1-2, 3-4, 3, 9-10 or Ps 104:1b-2, 3-4, 24-25, 27-28, 29-30
Acts 10:34-38 or Or Ti 2:11-14; 3:4-7
Lk 3:15-16, 21-22
If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sins, why did Jesus insist on being baptized by his cousin, John? And if baptism, as St. Peter wrote, “now saves you … through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet 3:21), why would the Messiah deem it appropriate, even necessary, to be baptized? What, was the point of the Lord’s baptism in the Jordan River?
These and related questions fascinated and perplexed many of the early Church fathers and theologians. The baptism of Christ, writes Fr. Kilian McDonnell, O.S.B., in his study of the topic, The Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan: The Trinitarian and Cosmic Order of Salvation(The Liturgical Press, 1996), “was widely discussed in all the currents of theological reflection” in the early Church, “without doubt partly because of the problems it posed.” From this discussion emerged many helpful theological insights.
St. Justin Martyr (d. 165), one of the first great apologists, addressed the baptism in his Dialogue with Trypho. He emphasized that the Son had no need to be baptizedjust as he had no need to be born, to suffer, or diebut did so in order to reveal himself to mankind; the baptism, in other words, was the messianic manifestation, a sign for the Church first, and then the world. When Jesus came to the waters, St. Justin wrote, “He was deemed a carpenter,” but the proclamation of the Father and the descent of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove showed him to be far more than a mere worker of wood.
In his famous work, Against Heresies, St. Irenaeus (d. c. 202) focused on the participation of those who believe in Christ in the anointing of the Savior. The connection between the baptism and anointingitself an essential Messianic conceptis already evident in the New Testament, as heard in today’s reading from the Acts of the Apostles: “…how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power.” This same anointing, St. Irenaeus wrote, is given to those who are baptized into Christ. The Holy Spirit, having descended upon the Son, has become “accustomed in fellowship with Him to dwell in the human race, to rest with human beings, and to dwell in the workmanship of God, working the will of the Father in them, and renewing them from their old habits into the newness of Christ.”
Others delved into the mystery and meaning of the Jordan River, which was already, at the time of Christ, the site of many key events in the history of Israel. St. Hippolytus (d. c. 236) referred to “the Grand Jordan”; Origen (d. 254) wrote that just as “no one is good, except the one only God, the Father,” likewise “no river is good except the Jordan.” St. Gregory of Nyssa (d. c. 394), in his treatise, On the Baptism of Jesus, wrote, “For Jordan alone of rivers, receiving in itself the first-fruits of sanctification and benediction, conveyed in its channel to the whole world, as it were from some fount in the type afforded by itself, the grace of Baptism.” Just as Joshua had entered the Promised Land by crossing the Jordan, Jesus opened the way to heaven by entering and dividing the same waters.
St. Ephrem (d. 373) wrote a beautiful hymn in which he connected the baptism of Jesus with the womb of Mary and the sacrament of the Eucharist: “See, Fire and Spirit in the womb that bore you! See, Fire and Spirit in the river where you were baptized! Fire and Spirit in our Baptism; in the Bread and the Cup, Fire and Holy Spirit!” Christ, the Light of the World, dwelt first in the womb of the Virginwho was thus “baptized” by her Sonand then in the womb of the Jordan; he emerged from both as the Incarnate Word, the Savior of mankind. Those who are baptized thus become the children of Mary and partakers of the body, blood, soul, and divinity of her Son.
Catholic ping!
Oh how I love to read the Early Church Fathers.
It’s all so very mystic. Evidence, facts and truth will prevail.
“St. Justin Martyr emphasized that the Son had no need to be baptizedâjust as he had no need to be born, to suffer, or dieâbut did so in order to reveal himself to mankind....”
Or to put it in modern parlance: He was baptized by his cousin because it was his coming out party. And early version of a debutante ball in society circles.
We went on a trip to Israel this summer with our temple. My wife and kids are Jews. I’m born Catholic, raised nothing. I grew up in a Jewish house because my mom remarried.
Anyway, my wife asked the rabbi if I could convert on the trip.
The only barrier was we needed three rabbis to do a ceremony in a body of water. I didn’t get the low down on whether I needed to be dipped, like a baptism. We couldn’t get three together at once so it didn’t matter.
It did get me thinking about the origins of baptism and the Jewish ceremony. They must be related through history. Is it possible that baptism is an age old declaration of faith that was practiced before Jesus? Did Jews appropriate the ceremony after him?
I will need to ask a rabbi and one of the priests at the local catholic school (where I coach HS lacrosse) one of these days.
I’m thinking the thief on the cross next to Jesus did not get baptized, but he did get to paradise. Just saying.
Follow me. I will show you the way. Jesus.
Jesus established the Sacraments:
Baptism
Eucharist
Confession
Confirmation
Holy Orders
Marriage
Anointing of the Sick
He did all for our salvation.
You need to ask the guys that painted these pictures.
http://topinfopost.com/2014/06/01/ancient-art-aliens-and-ufos
“They must be related through history.”
They are.
“Is it possible that baptism is an age old declaration of faith that was practiced before Jesus?”
In a sense, yes, but more of a declaration of repentance and purification.
“Did Jews appropriate the ceremony after him?”
No, they had it BEFORE Jesus walked the earth in His three years of ministry. http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2456-baptism
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/asktheexpert/mar14.html
“Iâm thinking the thief on the cross next to Jesus did not get baptized,”
So you assume. I agree with you, but we are both assuming aren’t we?
“but he did get to paradise. Just saying.”
Some Protestants don’t believe (the Third) Heaven and Paradise are necessarily the same thing by the way:
http://www.ministrysamples.org/excerpts/PARADISE-NOT-A-HEAVENLY-MANSION.HTML
About the Good Thief, (St. Dismas):
http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/dismissing-the-dismas-case
Baptism cannot and does NOT save you.
Baptism is the outward expression of your heart’s decision to follow CHRIST.
Nailed it.
You are leaning on man-made tradition. (Also, the thief on the cross was granted forgiveness while the Law was still in effect, which was before the Lord died. The new testament was not in effect until the death of the testator. See Heb. 9:16,17). Consider the scriptural facts:
The following shows a LOT of proof that water baptism is in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin.
First of all, is it not right to believe on the Lord as HE instructs us to believe on him? He gives very explicit instructions in being born again, beginning with John 3:5-8. Then, at the end of the Gospels, we read his words of commission to his apostles.
Matt. 28:19; the Lord commanded that THEY baptize souls.
Mark 16:16; The Lord commanded to his disciples that one must believe and be baptized.
Luke 24:47; The Lord commanded that repentance and remission of sins are to be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
John 20:23; The Lord commanded that whose soever sins YE remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.
Then following those commands, the apostles preached Jesus Christ, commanding repentance, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and receiving the Holy Ghost.
Jesus has made it quite clear that if you want his blood on you, you must be buried (by baptism) in his name.
In Acts 2:37 (Jews) we find convicted souls asking, “what shall we do?”Â
The wide way answer seems to be, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved”Â, but no details, such as HOW to believe, contrary to what the Lord and his apostles specifically commanded.
2:38; Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy GhostÂ. (note the position of the commas in the KJV.)
Now I will list the separate DETAILED accounts of water baptism:
8:12,13 (Samaritans) But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip...Â.
Notice that they believed, and were baptized. (sounds like fulfillment of the the Lord’s command in Mark 16:16; “He that believeth, and is baptized..”Â). They had NOT received the Spirit yet. Peter and John were then called to come to Samaria:
8:16; (For as yet he was fallen upon NONE of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)Â
The Ethiopian eunuch: 8:35-38; “Then Philip....preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down INTO the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” (first detailed witness mentioning water used in baptism).
10:46,47,48 (Gentiles) “...Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord...”Â. (care to guess what that name is?)
AND, remember these words of Peter: “Can any man forbid water..”Â. That is the second detailed witness mentioning water baptism).
In Acts 11 we find Peter back in Jerusalem, after the conversion event at Cornelius’ house in Caesarea, testifying of their receiving the Holy Ghost. With God giving them the Spirit, his hand was forced to obey God’s ordained plan, and baptize them in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Notice his testamony at that point:
11:17; “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; WHAT WAS I, THAT I COULD WITHSTAND GOD?”.
God expected Peter to do HIS part, and baptise them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission sins. Peter HAD to do it, for it was required by God.
Re-baptism in Ephesus: 19:5,6 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”Â
1Cor. 1:17 is a declaration by Paul, telling us that his ministry was not just baptism. Otherwise, he would not have baptized ANYBODY!)
Now, the list of the brief mentioning of baptisms. You may argue that those are Spirit baptisms only. Can you prove that? I say they are water baptisms, or both (and Paul is involved in all but the first of them):
Acts 2:41 about 3,000 were added.
9:18 Saul/Paul conversion.
16:15 Lydia and her household.
16:33 keeper of the prison and his household, in Philippi.
18:8 Crispus (one of several Paul admitted to baptizing in Corinth. 1Cor 1:14,16)
22:16 Saul/Paul again.
Now, the references to baptism in the epistles, which were written to those ALREADY born again (note the intro to those letters: brethern, faithful, saints, etc., that is the context).
Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That is certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.Â
5. For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”Â
Col. 2:12 is quite similar: “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the operation of God, who raised him from the dead.”Â
Buried,...planted.....That sure is clear to me: Paul is referring to water baptism, and Spirit baptism, as separate events, and that both are required.
1Cor. 1:12-17
Now is as good of a time as any to address the inconsistancies of the folks that say that water baptism is not essential:
When faced with passages that mention baptism, but do not specifically say that it was water baptism, they will say it is not talking about water baptism. But, when faced with the passage in 1Cor. 1:12-17, then they wholehearted agree that it is referring to water baptism.
(I have just taken the afore mentioned Acts 18:8 (Crispus), and solidly put that passage in the water baptism category.)
Then there is the emphasis on the name, which Paul makes clear to be Jesus: 1Cor. 1:13 “Is CHRIST divided? was PAUL crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the NAME of Paul?”Â
(Yes, Paul baptized in water at Corinth, in the name of Jesus.)
But then the ‘not essential’ crowd totally dismisses baptism at times, using the “..Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..”Â; when Paul JUST got done admitting to baptizing several souls.
Heb. 6:1-3 is written to those born again: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection: not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permit.”Â
(Notice the ‘doctine of baptisms’ is plural?)
1Peter is also written to born again souls. Look at 1:2, “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto OBEDIENCE and SPRINKLING of the blood of Jesus Christ...”Â.
1Peter 3:20,21 is quite plain, if you are willing to allow it to harmonize with everything presented so far. 20 “...eight souls were saved by water. 21 The LIKE figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
Water baptism is not a bath, but is done in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. That is how it saves. That is how one has the answer of a good conscience toward God. Being buried with him is where you get his blood on you, but his NAME must not be left out.
If there is no resurrection, then water baptism is a waste of time. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” 1Cor 15:29.
That is Paul (the one who was not suppose to baptize), saying that if Christ (and the asleep in Christ) rise not, then it is all vain. Of course, we know that is not the case, since Christ is risen, and the Spirit poured out.
Being born again requires obedience, which is NOT ‘our OWN works’. As Paul said to the saints in Rome:
“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18
We shouldn’t be interested in a man’s opinion on this subject. Rather read for it yourself in The Bible, God’s Word.
Acts 16:30-31
Ephesians 1:12-14
John 10:27-30
Romans 10:9-10
John 6:29
John 11:25
God Bless!
bump
“Why did Jesus insist on being baptized?”
To legitimize the act?
Never ask anyone to do something you wouldn’t do yourself?
Even the son of God must be cleansed of his sins?
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THANK YOU so much for explaining this: "to reveal Himself to mankind." Of course.
Nice to have someone on board who knows these things.
Baptism of Desire
If you say so, however:
John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
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