Was The Papacy Established By Christ?

triablogue ^ | June 23, 2006 | Jason Engwer

[af_vet_1981]

A simple example in English: A proud Grampa looks at his beloved granddaughter and says “This is my little angel.” Does any reasonable listener think he is speaking of a small, non-human, angelic being? Or do they know, from the combination of physical and verbal cues, he is using a metaphor to describe his wonderful granddaughter? Of course they know.

Yet I'm examining the only passages, as I recall, where the Messiah is recorded saying "This is my". I will allow that some regard this next passage as metaphor, that the Messiah does not mean what he said literally, though I take him literally at his word, that this is his commandment. Of course if I undertook to make a new version of Christianity from the ground up I would be likely to err despite my best intentions. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
John, Catholic chapter fifteen, Protestant verses twelve to fifteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James.

[metmom]

Neither bread nor wine remains. However, the accidents of bread and wine (size, weight, taste, texture) do remain.

There's a lot of mental gymnastics involved in saying something is and is not something at the same time.

[Elsie]

what does that mean???

Been around FR since before ME and you do not know what this means?

That's LONG term memory loss!

[Elsie]

If you profess to be a follower of Christ, but are not a member of the one true Christian faith (Catholicism)...then you are a protestant.....what else is there????

Only TWO choices?

How Catholic!

US vs THEM

[Elsie]

Let's see now....Jesus said "THIS IS MY BODY"

Let's see now....Jesus said "You brood of vipers"

[Elsie]

Rome wrote them down for you and you certainly can't prove them wrong....Rome wins....they got to go first!!

You must not be much of a race fan...

[Elsie]

Rome wrote them down for you and you certainly can't prove them wrong...

Yes; Rome has written down LOTS of things.

The bible you guys gave us isn't enough to get a person saved.

[Elsie]

Apparently you do.

I could not care much less about the guy who is dubbed "The Vicar of Christ".

It's YOU Catholics who are all atwitter over the things he is saying.

I'll stand back and watch!

[Elsie]

He said this IS my body, this IS my blood.

He said You brood of vipers.

[Elsie]

You seem to be very angry. Why?

You are trying to deflect.

I know why.

[Elsie]

Have you quit beating your wife?

[Elsie]

In the Eucharist, after the priest consecrates the bread and wine and they are, in fact, transubstantiated into the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord, our Lord is then entirely present.

Facts are provable.

[Elsie]

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. .. but adding LOTS!

[Elsie]

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing.

We keep wanting to see the PROOF of this; but it NEVER comes.

Lurkers wonder why...

[bmwcyle]

NO and also Jesus did not say form secret societies.

[ADSUM]

Your comment:”1) God can do miracles. Duh. Yes, we get that. We have in many cases even experienced such miracles ourselves, so we know God can do anything. But there’s a big gap between knowing what God can do and insisting He did something with zero evidence of said act. Zero evidence.”

Perhaps you just don’t believe in the words of Jesus?
You can believe whatever you want.

I do believe in the teachings of Jesus. Even if some Catholics do not fully believe in the transubstantiation, that is their belief, not the teaching of Jesus and His Catholic Church.

For your information there are Eucharist miracles:
Over a 100 recorded miracles
1730 Siena Italy
1263 German priest
1331 Blano, France
1247 Santarem Portugal
1649 Eten Peru
6th century Palestine as told by St Zosimus
1433 Avigon, France
700 Lanciano, Italy
2008 Bialystok,Poland
2013 Mexico

There are some interesting stories. Including parting of the Jordan River so that a woman could receive the Eucharist, how a church was kept from being flooded. Based on scientific examination of soiled hosts, it was determined to be blood and heart muscle. Type AB positive.

Check out Catholic answers and Free Republic. Some of these stories have been posted on FR.

I can understand that people do not believe and question things, but I also read some convoluted reasoning to support their position.

It does require faith in Jesus Christ and His teachings and the understanding that he delegated to the Catholic Church to Go forth Baptize and teach all nations...

[ADSUM]

So you don’t believe the words of Jesus and do not have faith in what Jesus told us.

I understand that the protestors need to disagree because they would need to be practicing Catholics to receive the Body and Blood of Jesus.

All are welcome.

[MHGinTN]

“So you don’t believe the words of Jesus” Again and again, catholic apologists conflate the Word of God with the word of Vatican. You keep pushing a cannibalistic INTERPRETATION of the bread and wine remembrance which is a direct contradiction to what God commanded starting way back in Genesis. You catholics are clueless to the meaning of the phrase ‘the life is in the blood’, so you push this sacrilege of drinking the LITERAL blood of Jesus. And pushing this blasphemy you have the nerve to tell metmom that she doesn’t believe the words of Jesus, as if your sacrilege would be the meaning of the words of Jesus. Because you catholics will not learn to let the Bible be it’s own best commentary you continue to insult the Blood of the New Covenant by pretending you drink the literal blood of The Savior. What was it Jesus said to Peter/ ... Get thee behind us, satan.

[MHGinTN]

Leviticus 3:16 &17 The priest shall offer them up in smoke on the altar as food, an offering by fire for a soothing aroma; all fat is the LORD'S. 17 'It is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall not eat any fat or any blood.'"

Were the disciples sitting for the Passover meal with Jesus included in the generations? Is the god you worship 'double-minded'? Or is The God of The Bible able to not contradict Himself?

[ADSUM]

Your comment: “When I was a catholic, I believed He meant the bread was literally His body. Now that I am an ex catholic, I don’t believe it at all. He meant it figuratively, because we are prohibited from drinking blood. That would be cannibalism. I am not into that. You can drink blood if you want, I won’t do it. Cannibalism is evil, and I don’t want to be evil. I understand things much better, now that I am an ex catholic”

So did the bread taste like flesh and blood? So in your mind you are a cannibal. So what made you lose your belief?

While, I don’t know you, my assumption is that you didn’t leave the Catholic church because of your belief or lack of belief in the Real Presence.

What makes you different than the Jews in John 6 that did not believe and no longer followed Jesus?