All the Way Back

White Horse Inn ^ | February 8, 2014 | Timothy F. Kauffman

[RnMomof7]

While it is true that Scripture does not show Jesus telling Peter to replace Judas, Scripture does specifically tell us that Matthias replaced Judas.

Scripture also tells us that David murdered.. that does not mean that God approved..

Paul was an apostle ... directly chosen by God ... there were to be 12 Apostles not 13

[Elsie]

bump

[rwa265]

Scripture also tells us that David murdered.. that does not mean that God approved..

Paul was an apostle ... directly chosen by God ... there were to be 12 Apostles not 13

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We know that God did not approve what David did from Scripture. “But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord.” 2 Samuel 11:27 KJV

Conversely, Scripture does not tell us that God disapproved Matthias replacing Judas. Scripture is silent on what God thought. Acts 2, though, seems to indicate that the Holy Ghost included Matthias among the apostles on Pentecost.

Acts 1:26 tells us that Matthias was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Immediately following this, Acts 2 says that when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were ALL with one accord in one place. And cloven tongues like as of fire sat upon EACH of them. And they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Act 2:14 tells us that this ALL included 12 apostles; Peter, standing up with the eleven.

This appears to be a fairly conclusive case that the choice of Matthias was valid. Can you present a more conclusive case that this choice was invalid?

[RnMomof7]

Immediately following this, Acts 2 says that when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were ALL with one accord in one place. And cloven tongues like as of fire sat upon EACH of them. And they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Act 2:14 tells us that this ALL included 12 apostles; Peter, standing up with the eleven.
This appears to be a fairly conclusive case that the choice of Matthias was valid. Can you present a more conclusive case that this choice was invalid

You left this out ...Acts 1:14 They all met together and were constantly united in prayer, along with Mary the mother of Jesus, several other women, and the brothers of Jesus.

Being in the upper room did not make one an apostle

WHO WERE ALL GATHERED IN ONE PLACE??? WHO were all filled with the Holy Spirit ??

Luke says that 120 of Jesus’ disciples had been meeting together in an upper room during the time between his ascension into heaven and the day of Pentecost. ...and yes the the mother of Jesus and the other women.. guess she needed the holy spirit too..

Paul was ordained of God to be the primary teacher of the new church ...

[rwa265]

WHO WERE ALL GATHERED IN ONE PLACE??? WHO were all filled with the Holy Spirit ??

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Scripture does not tell us who were all filled with the Holy Spirit. Scripture does tell us that Matthias was numbered with the eleven apostles and then tells us that Peter stood up with the eleven.

I agree that Paul was ordained by God to be the primary teacher of the new church. But I do not see where it says anywhere in Scripture that God chose Paul as a replacement for Judas. Paul’s role was different than that of the 12.

[RnMomof7]

I agree that Paul was ordained by God to be the primary teacher of the new church. But I do not see where it says anywhere in Scripture that God chose Paul as a replacement for Judas. Paul’s role was different than that of the 12.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all his holy people throughout Achaia:

There were to be 12 Apostles.. ( just as there were 12 tribes) not 13 apostles ...No where in the NT did Jesus tell them to replace Judas nor did He ever impart the authority to do so ...

[rwa265]

No where in the NT did Jesus tell them to replace Judas nor did He ever impart the authority to do so ...

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Scripture does not record everything that Jesus did or said. What Scripture does tell us is that Matthias was chosen by lot to take part of the ministry and apostleship and that he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Paul was a chosen vessel unto the Lord and as such could be called an apostle, but where does Scripture say that Paul was ever numbered with the eleven?

[Elsie]

Scripture does not record everything that Jesus did or said.

Ah...

The Great Fallback position!

Since Rome has the self-proclaimed AUTHORITY; it can make up ANYTHING it wants and claims it is true because of LACK of evidence!

I'd hate for MY lawyer to enter a courtroom and expect this kind of tactic to work!

[rwa265]

Scripture does not record everything that Jesus did or said.

Ah...

The Great Fallback position!

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It was not intended to be a Fallback position. Perhaps I should have wrote:

It is true that nowhere in the NT did Jesus tell them to replace Judas nor did He ever impart the authority to do so. What is in the NT is that Matthias was chosen by lot to take part of the ministry and apostleship and that he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

It is also in the NT that Paul was a chosen vessel unto the Lord and as such could be called an apostle. But no where in the NT did it say that Paul replaced Judas or that he was numbered with the eleven.

Do you agree with this, Elsie?

[Heart-Rest]

Hammer time?

"Scars In The Hands Of Jesus"  - The Florida Boys

 
Listen to God:

"I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."   John 17:20-21

[Elsie]

Can I agree that certain things are NOT found in Scripture?

Well... DUH!

Have I complained about things NOT found in Scripture being presented as though they have?

Same answer.

[Elsie]

...that they may all be one... as long as they knuckle down to the demands of Rome.

[Heart-Rest]

As the Catholic Church plainly teaches, you should only "knuckle under" to the teachings of God, and (by logical extension) no one should ever "knuckle under" to the private teachings of
 .

[Elsie]

was Joseph's fourteenth wife...

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Whatever HAPPENED to Emma???

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Eliza was a devout Mormon.

 

At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma).

 

In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and

knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.

Wow!!

 

I guess ol' Emma got VAPORIZED by GOD!!!

 

We know that multiply him thing sure didn't work out!          

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

[Elsie]

(by logical extension) = traditions of the church.

 

 

 

 

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Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

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John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

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1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

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James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

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