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The Crafting of the 4th Century Roman Church, Doctrine, and Papacy
triablogue ^ | February 26, 2013 | John Bugay

Posted on 05/06/2015 3:22:31 PM PDT by RnMomof7

The Crafting of the 4th Century Roman Church, Doctrine, and Papacy

There is no question that there were “bishops” in Rome, likely beginning in the late second or early third centuries. But these were not “bishops” as we would understand them today.

Roger Collins, in his work “Keepers of the Keys of Heaven: A History of the Papacy”, New York, NY: Basic Books, a Member of the Perseus Books Group, ©2009) wrote:

Not everyone is convinced that what has been called a monarchic bishop, with unquestioned authority over all of the Christian clergy in the city, was to be found in Rome even as early as [155-166], and Fabian (236-250) has been proposed as the first bishop of Rome in the full sense. It is probably not necessary to take so extreme a view. The idea that in principle there should be a single bishop at the head of the whole Christian community of the city existed well before his time. On the other hand, even after 250 the authority of the bishop over all of the Christians in the city could not easily be enforced, as it was impossible to impose uniformity in so large a city when the Christians remained legally proscribed and danger of prosecution by the state (pg 14, emphasis added).

In fact, there were disputes – “street fighting among their followers” – for control long after the 250 date. Collins recounts, “because of the house-church system, such rival bishops could co-exist for as long as they had the backing of some of the city’s many Christian groups. But the divisions usually resulted in violent clashes between the partisans of the two claimants, and in all cases the imperial government intervened to end the bloodshed and to send one or both of the rivals into exile, as happened in 235, and would do so again in 306/7 and 308” (Collins 25-26).

After the conversion of Constantine and the legalization of Christianity in Rome, the bishops of Rome found that they had wealth and splendor, and began building monuments to themselves:

They [bishops of Rome] set about [creating a Christian Rome] by building churches, converting the modest tituli (community church centres) into something grander, and creating new and more public foundations, though to begin with nothing that rivaled the great basilicas at the Lateran and St. Peter’s. Over the next hundred years their churches advanced into the city – Pope Mark’s (336) San Marco within a stone’s throw of the Capitol, Pope Liberius’ massive basilica on the Esquiline (now Santa Maria Maggiore), Pope Damasus’ Santa Anastasia at the foot of the Palatine, Pope Julius’ foundation on the site of the present Santa Maria in Trastevere, Santa Pudenziana near the Baths of Diocletian under Pope Anastasius (399-401), Santa Sabina among the patrician villas on the Aventine under Pope Celestine (422-32).

These churches were a mark of the upbeat confidence of post-Constantinian Christianity in Rome. The popes were potentates, and began to behave like it. Damasus perfectly embodied this growing grandeur. An urbane career cleric like his predecessor Liberius, at home in the wealthy salons of the city, he was also a ruthless power-broker, and he did not he did not hesitate to mobilize both the city police and [a hired mob of gravediggers with pickaxes] to back up his rule…(Eamon Duffy, “Saints and Sinners, A History of the Popes, New Haven and London, Yale Nota Bene, Yale University Press ©1997 and 2001, pgs 37-38). (Eamon Duffy, “Saints and Sinners: A History of the Popes”, New Haven and London, Yale Nota Bene, Yale University Press ©1997 and 2001, pgs 37-38).

But the only changes weren’t architectural changes. During the fourth century, these bishops of Rome sought to put their own doctrinal marks on the church.

Since the mid third century there had been a growing assimilation of Christian and secular culture. It is already in evidence long before Constantine with the art of the Christian burial sites round the city, the catacombs. With the imperial adoption of Christianity, this process accelerated. In Damasus’ Rome, wealthy Christians gave each other gifts in which Christian symbols went alongside images of Venus, nereids and sea-monsters, and representations of pagan-style wedding-processions.

This Romanisation of the Church was not all a matter of worldiness, however. The bishops of the imperial capital had to confront the Roman character of their city and their see. They set about finding a religious dimension to that Romanitias which would have profound implications for the nature of the papacy. Pope Damasus in particular took this task to heart. He set himself to interpret Rome’s past in the light not of paganism, but of Christianity. He would Latinise the Church, and Christianise Latin. He appointed as his secretary the greatest Latin scholar of the day, the Dalmatian presbyter Jerome, and commissioned him to turn the crude dog-Latin of the Bible versions [currently] used in the church into something more urbane and polished. Jerome’s work was never completed, but the Vulgate Bible, as it came to be called, rendered the scriptures of ancient Israel and the early Church into an idiom which Romans could recognize as their own. The covenant legislation of the ancient tribes was now cast in the language of the Roman law-courts [emphasis added], and Jerome’s version of the promises to Peter used familiar Roman legal words for binding and loosing -- ligare and solver -- which underlined the legal character of the Pope’s unique claims (Duffy, 38-39).

It should be noted that this “Latinization” was one of the things that the Reformation worked to undo. It was the focus of the motto, “ad fontes” [“To the sources”].

As Alister McGrath has noted in his “Introduction to Christian Theology,” “the Vulgate translation of several major New Testament texts could not be justified.” Nevertheless, he said, “a number of medieval church practices and beliefs were based upon these texts.”

So in addition to some of the forgeries and works of fiction upon which the papacy aggrandized itself, Roman doctrines themselves were founded upon or expanded with translation errors.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholicism; doctrine; history; keystothekingdom; papcy; pope; popefrancis; romancatholicism; thepapacy; thepope
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To: DesertRhino; dp0622; RnMomof7
If anyone REALLY wants to talk about "long treatises", they simply must pay a visit to the Vatican libraries. There they will find miles and miles (26 miles of shelving) of canon law texts, encyclicals, papal bulls, codices and theological as well as pagan and secular manuscripts and that's not even counting the Vatican Secret Archives. Over the last several years there has been an undertaking to digitize the millions of documents, so, who knows, one day we can read the long treatises from our computers in the comfort of our home! ;o)
21 posted on 05/06/2015 7:53:34 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Salvation
Correction...the Imaginary List of Popes
22 posted on 05/06/2015 7:55:29 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: verga; RnMomof7
Half truths and innuendos trying to pass as history.

So glad you are starting to realize that about your Roman Catholic religion's so-called "history". Keep up the good work, RnMomof7, some of it is actually breaking through the hardened hearts! ☺

23 posted on 05/06/2015 8:01:48 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

The author needs to check the list, because by the end of the 300s (4th century) history shows that there were already 39 Popes.


24 posted on 05/06/2015 8:06:12 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: DesertRhino; Religion Moderator
**every Catholic posting**

You're sure about that? Do you have an "every" category now for Catholics?

I think your post is false.

25 posted on 05/06/2015 8:12:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: verga; RnMomof7

You are talking about the poster, right?


26 posted on 05/06/2015 8:16:46 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: DesertRhino
Taking no position on the article, was that humor to ask her to reduce long treatises to a few sentences? It had to be, every Catholic posting I see is unbelievably long, and reads like a motion in an investment banking securities fraud trial.

HAHAHAHA! Now that's exactly right! I would have never written it so perfectly, but you are right on that - exceedingly dry and absurdly long... 'almost torturous' would seem to be the guideline.

27 posted on 05/06/2015 8:32:48 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: WVKayaker

((Where did Jesus make bishops?**

Paul ordained Bishops. Have you read 1 and 2 Timothy lately.

Christ ordained the apostles by breathing on them and giving them the power to forgive and bind sins.


28 posted on 05/06/2015 8:35:10 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: WVKayaker
You do believe the Bible, correct?

JOHN 20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."

20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.

21 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."


29 posted on 05/06/2015 8:36:07 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: RnMomof7

I found the article instructive.

Remember, it was RELIGIOUS men that clashed with Jesus because they were afraid of Him taking their place away. They should have joined John the Baptist in saying “He must become greater, I must become less important.”

“In holy things may be unholy greed”—George MacDonald

The perks of religious office spoil many a man, and it spans the entire spectrum of Christendom. Catholics may have a long resume of shifty leaders, but so did Israel and so does everyone else.

This is a core human nature problem.


30 posted on 05/06/2015 9:48:38 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: Salvation
Whose "history" should we check?

From http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/search/label/the%20non-existent%20early%20papacy:

    This again proves that there was no such thing as a Papacy in the early centuries, and even Leo I, cannot really claim to be the "first Pope". Many church history textbooks, unfortunately, are misleading and anachronistic, by writing things like, "Pope Leo I" or "Leo I, the first Pope" or "Gregory the Great, bishop of Rome from 590-604 AD, the first Pope". Even Gregory in 601 AD did not claim to be univeral bishop and in fact rebuked John of Constantinople for making such a claim. Gregory wrote the the Emperor Maurice: "Now I confidently say that whosoever calls himself, or desires to be called, Universal Priest, is in his elation the percursor of AntiChrist, because he proudly puts himself above all others. ( Gregory I, bishop of Rome, 590-604 AD; Book VII, Epistle XXXIII)

31 posted on 05/06/2015 9:57:59 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Salvation
And, by the by, there only two places in Scripture where the particular form of the word "breathed" that is used when Christ breathed on the Apostles is uses. In that passage and when God breathed life into Adam.

Nothing unique or enduring about that sort of breath, right? I mean, nothing passed down to us from Adam so the Apostles likewise had nothing they could and did pass down through those they anointed to take their place.

32 posted on 05/07/2015 12:08:07 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: boatbums

You so silly.


33 posted on 05/07/2015 2:22:19 AM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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To: Salvation

Yes


34 posted on 05/07/2015 2:23:12 AM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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To: NYer
The first known extra-scriptural reference to apostolic succession is 1 Clement, written during the apostolic age:
44:1 Our Apostles, too, by the instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ, knew that strife would arise concerning the dignity of a bishop;

44:2 and on this account, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed the above-mentioned as bishops and deacons: and then gave a rule of succession, in order that, when they had fallen asleep, other men, who had been approved, might succeed to their ministry.

44:3 Those who were thus appointed by them, or afterwards by other men of good repute, with the consent of the whole Church, who have blamelessly ministered to the flock of Christ with humility, quietly, and without illiberality, and who for a long time have obtained a good report from all, these, we think, have been unjustly deposed from the ministry.

44:4 For it will be no small sin in us if we depose from the office of bishop those who blamelessly and piously have made the offerings.

44:5 Happy are the presbyters who finished their course before, and died in mature age after they had borne fruit; for they do not fear lest any one should remove them from the place appointed for them.

44:6 For we see that ye have removed some men of honest conversation from the ministry, which had been blamelessly and honourably performed by them.

1 Clem 44 (tr. Charles H. Hoole, 1885).
35 posted on 05/07/2015 5:18:45 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: NYer

There is no such office of priest in the New Testament church other than Christ as the High Priest and all believers as priests.


36 posted on 05/07/2015 5:39:50 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: RnMomof7
 

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'  


37 posted on 05/07/2015 5:43:43 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: verga
Half truths and innuendos trying to pass as history.

Really???


Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

38 posted on 05/07/2015 5:44:46 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: wmfights
>>It wasn't until the 2nd century, after the Apostolic Era ended, that a centralized structure began to emerge.<<

And not until Constantine that all authority was centralized in Rome.

39 posted on 05/07/2015 5:44:51 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Elsie
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
40 posted on 05/07/2015 7:29:13 AM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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