Posted on 02/08/2015 3:28:55 PM PST by RnMomof7
Not so. Catholicism is the only religion that claims it’s participating in sacrificing Christ again at every mass.
Which body is it participating in the sacrifice of?
His old body that died and was buried?
Or His new resurrected body?
BTW, suffering isn’t redemptive.
The shedding of blood is.
The wages of sin is DEATH.
Suffering can’t pay for sin.
Nope, it was NEVER mentioned until the revolution when Protestants started to deny that the Catholic church was, indeed, a participant in Gods plan. For 1600 or so years, everyone knew where the Bible originated....suddenly there were those who decided that the Catholic Bible was different than the Christian bible.....yet there was only one......Interpret that as you will....I cannot understand protestants protests.....one Bible, from the original Christian church, about 1,600 years of history (quite successful and the basis of western society) and we will decide that they are wrong, we will make up our own version of what really happened and what was said and we will try to send civilization on a different path......O.K. to try I guess...
“BTW, suffering isn’t redemptive. The shedding of blood is.”
The Bible is very clear that without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sin. (Hebrews 9:22)
“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.” (Leviticus 17:11)
Despite the clear teaching of Scripture, Rome has an “unbloody sacrifice.” They say it’s a propitiatory sacrifice, but the Bible says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. So not only is it unnecessary to sacrifice Christ again and again, but an unbloody sacrifice is worthless to make atonement for sin. An unbloody sacrifice is no sacrifice at all!
That means you “crucified “ (notice the past tense again) yourself to the cross of your sins. His sacrifice is indeed a one time deal for all past, present, and future sins of yours but that dmeant mean he’ll be sacrificed again and again and again for you. God only needs one time to get it right.
Hebrews 7:27 and for that matter the whole book of Hebrews focuses on this theme.
Meant to say doesn’t mean that he will be sacrificed over and over...
Greetings metmom!
you posted: “Not so. Catholicism is the only religion that claims it’s participating in sacrificing Christ again at every mass. Which body is it participating in the sacrifice of? His old body that died and was buried? Or His new resurrected body?”
I cannot answer this question because I am not of the Catholic faith. If only we could learn to be critical of others with the Love of Jesus Christ which seeks to heal rather than wound and destroy with diabolical hate.
Jesus was born in a stable and laid in a manger. The only clean place in Israel. Clean of religious bigotry and pride.
LOL, there you go again. Others have told you it wasn't those darned catholics, so I won't waste time telling you the same thing that countless others have already done. Roman War C, MM, BB, Dan, NM, 2nd Amend mom, I know you used to be a catholics like me. Are you as happy as I am, that you are not catholic anymore?😊 Am I correct in assuming that there is no danger of any of you swimming the Tiber? Some people, who will remain unnamed, may not like it, but such is life. BTW TC, I could play hockey better than you too. 😄😇😃🆒
Greetings metmom!
You posted: “BTW, suffering isn’t redemptive. The shedding of blood is. The wages of sin is DEATH. Suffering can’t pay for sin.”
Not sure why you posted this, or what you’re getting at. But here’s something to ponder:
2Co 1:5,6 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
I didn’t see any replies to you when you posted this:
can you tell me what these mean?
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12
Or this?
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21
Or this?
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54
Catholics are at liberty to read the Bible from cover to cover. Every single verse of the Bible is "taught in the Catholic Church." Any time any Catholic wants to ask a question about any verse in Scripture, he has 2000 years of commentary he can consult, theologians he can write to, a local priest he can discuss it with, who can also recommend authors.
What a bigoted, cartoonish idea--that some Scripture verses "are not taught in the Catholic Church"!
Why do you think it is that when someone needs an exorcism, nobody says, “Hey! Let’s call a Presbyterian minister!”
There is NO chance I will swim those polluted waters! There is a peace that passes all understanding when we know that we have eternal life, that we are God’s own. That’s not something I ever experienced as an RC...in fact, I’ve been told by some here that expressing such assurance is a sin of “presumption”. Imagine that! Believing God’s promise is a sin to some people!?
Don’t believe either. Believe the Word of God, which the article well discusses.
"Of Latter Day Saints"
Were you embarrassed or ashamed to type the entire name of your church?
And no thanks on calling that number, I know all I need to know about the cult of Mormonism.
Well stated, and to be amplified to further glorify Him, note the thinking of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, when He exclaimed the blessing.
Mat 16:17-18
(17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
(18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Note, Jesus Christ was obedient to the Will of the Father, not the human will of Jesus Christ prior to the Father’s Will. Jesus Christ was pointing out a fabulous discernment between the Persons of the Godhead and the effects on our humanity.
He is noting that God the Father had blessed Simon Barjona.
He further notes that the knowledge of Jesus as the Christ had NOT been revealed by flesh or blood, but by God the Father to the soul of Simon.
Note also that our Lord’s church is to be built upon this same object of his explanation, namely that which God the Father has worked, the faith of the believer. This is why nothing will overcome it. It is the work of God the Father.
Further in depth study is also induced from this passage. Namely, the role of the flesh and blood, as associated with the bodily senses, the soul’s system of perception which is rationalism, and the spiritual system of perception which is faith.
Yeah,who needs a helmet anyway?
Two different milestones are described by these events.
First, "IT IS FINISHED" refers to what occurred on the Cross. Secondly, the Resurrection manifests Jesus Christ was the First Fruits, a testimony that in His Human Body, He had received forgiveness and had eternal life free from Hades. 40 days later, at the Ascension, He would be raised up to seat at the right hand of God the Father.
The Cross was JUDGMENT (not forgiveness,..that comes later). At the Cross, all the sins of humanity, past, present, and future, were imputed to Jesus Christ in His humanity, and judged.
When He exclaims, "IT IS FINISHED", He manifests the JUDGMENT of all human sins had been completed. Sin is no longer the object being judged in the future. Nowhere at the Great White Throne Judgment, where those who are sent away to the Lake of Fire, are sins called into judgment. Instead the Books of Names and Works are opened.
While sins have already been judged, we as humans from the seed of Adam, are born with an old sin nature, are not sinless, and are condemned prior to salvation. Before any human can have salvation, they must be reborn in the spirit.
God is free to give us a reborn spirit by His GRACE, when we face Him through faith in what Christ performed at the Cross and confess our sins to Him.
When we are reborn, we now have a regenerated human spirit, but our souls are still scarred from our lives as sinners, from a worldly and carnal past and simply from acting independently from His Spirit. He then begins His work in us of Sanctification.
Before the Cross, the Perfect Sacrifice had not yet been made. No man was pure enough to enter into the abode of God in Heaven.
Sequence of events:
While on the Cross, all the sins of humanity were imputed to Jesus Christ, and His soul was JUDGED for those sins.
He then declared "IT IS FINISHED". He had not yet died in His soul, because He made the statement, and later exclaimed, My God, My God, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME!". Then he yielded up his human spirit to God the Father, and by his own volition, shoved His head forward, and the physical forces caused his physical death.
His soul departed His body while on the Cross at His physical death, and descended into HADES. His body was pierced manifesting He died on the Cross prior to the spearing, and His body was then taken to a prepared grave (the tomb) and guarded for three days. His spirit was returned to God the Father.
As the First Fruits, when He resurrected, we know all sins had been judged. We know He also paid the penalty of spiritual death when He exclaimed, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" (Matt 27:46).
In order to be resurrected, his body, soul, and spirit came back together. God the Father returned His human spirit to His body in the grave, and His soul returned to His body in the grave, and He was then Resurrected into a new Resurrected body.
God the Father was not free by His immutable essence to perform these things prior to the judgment of all sin, and their penalties paid.
So we know Jesus Christ fulfilled a substitutionary atonement of sin for all mankind; He redeemed mankind from the slave market of sin; and He manifests eternal life for the believer.
Great post.
Here are some additional notes on OSAS, so easily forgotten.:
h. There are three reasons for faith alone in Christ alone for eternal salvation: efficacious grace, the Greek word TETELESTAI, the direct statement of Scripture.
(1) Efficacious Grace.
(a) When the spiritually dead person responds to the divine call (or invitation to eternal salvation), he simply believes in Jesus Christ. This is a thought in the soul of a spiritually dead person. We are spiritually brain dead and are helpless to have a spiritual thought. When you respond with faith in Christ to the divine call to believe in Christ, the grace of God the Holy Spirit takes faith in Christ and makes it effective for eternal salvation.
(b) If you add anything to non-meritorious faith alone, then the Holy Spirit cannot make that faith effective for salvation. If you add anything, it cancels your faith; you have contradicted the grace of God completely. Many people are not saved because they have added some work to their faith. If you add anything, you have rejected Christ as savior. God the Holy Spirit cannot make human works effective for salvation. He cannot make your making Christ Lord or making a commitment for Christ or giving up something or any legalistic function effective for salvation. We do not cooperate with God for our salvation; God provides it all by Himself.
(c) The only thing we have that is compatible with the grace policy of God is faith alone in Christ alone. The faith of the spiritually dead person indicates positive volition and non-meritorious function compatible with grace.
(d) The Holy Spirit, in common grace, makes the gospel understandable to the spiritually dead person. Then God the Father invites the spiritually dead person to believe in Christ. Then the spiritually dead person believes in Christ for salvation. Then God the Holy Spirit makes the spiritually dead person’s faith in Christ effective for salvation. When works are added the omnipotence of the Spirit does not cause faith to be effective for salvation, because divine omnipotence and human power are mutually exclusive. Consequently, human works added to faith in Christ cancels faith; for human works is human power, which is rejected by grace.
(e) The legalist tries to fit all believers into his own pattern and mode of thinking. When the professed believer does not comply with the legalist’s erroneous ideas, the legalist is shocked, frustrated, and proclaims that the professed believer was really not saved in the first place. The legalist says that the professed believer really was not saved because all he did was believe in Christ. From this legalistic thinking comes the heresy and blasphemy that you have to believe and make a commitment, that you have to believe and feel sorry for your sins, that you have to make Christ Lord of all, that you have to believe and be baptized, that you have to believe and live a good moral life, that you have to believe and have an emotional experience, that you must feel saved, that you must come forward and make a public profession of your faith, or that you must invite Christ into your heart.
(2) The Greek word TETELESTAI.
(a) This word was uttered by our Lord on the Cross while He was still alive. His physical death had nothing to do with our salvation. When the last sin was judged, our Lord said, “It is finished.” He was telling us that His work of substitutionary spiritual death—being judged for our sins—was finished. Then He died physically and dismissed His soul and spirit from His body. Christ did not die physically for our sins. His physical death only meant that His work on earth during the Incarnation was finished. When our Lord said TETELESTAI, He was speaking from His humanity.
(b) Jn 19:30, “Therefore, when Jesus had received the wine, He said, `Finished in the past with the result that it stands finished forever.’ He pushed His head forward and delivered over His human spirit.” This is the intensive perfect passive indicative of the verb TELEO, which means to achieve, to succeed, to complete, or to finish.
(3) The direct statement of Scripture. Grace is a gift from God. Since it is a gift, it cannot be earned or deserved.
(a) Jn 16:8-9, “And when He [the Holy Spirit] comes, He will convince the world concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me.”
(b) Jn 3:15-16, 18, “Every one who believes in Me has eternal life. For God loved the world so much that He gave His Son, the unique One, in order that any one who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. ...He who believes in Him is not judged, but he who does not believe is judged already because he has not believed in the person of the uniquely born Son of God.”
(c) Jn 3:36, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not believe shall not see life but the wrath of God abides on him.”
(d) Jn 6:47, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has eternal life.”
(e) Jn 11:25, “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies.”
(f) Jn 20:31, “These things are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, you might have life through His name.”
(g) Acts 16:31, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. And likewise, every one of your family [can do the same thing and be saved].”
(h) Gal 3:26, “You are the sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”
(i) Gal 2:16, “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law.”
(j) Rom 1:16, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ because it is the power of God for salvation to every one who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.”
(k) Rom 3:20-22, “Because by the works of the Law no flesh shall be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the knowledge of sin, but apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets [Old Testament], even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe.”
(l) Rom 3:28, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”
(m) Rom 4:4-5, “But to the one who works for salvation, his wages are not calculated on the basis of grace, they are calculated on the basis of debt. But to him who does not work for salvation but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly [the spiritually dead person], his faith receives credit for righteousness.”
(n) Rom 4:14, 16, “For if those who are by means of the Law heirs, then faith has been made void and the promises have been canceled.” “For this reason, it is by means of faith, in order that it might be on the basis of grace.”
(o) Rom 5:1,15,17, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through Whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we are jubilant in the hope of the glory of God.” “But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.” “For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through that one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness will reign in life through that One, Jesus Christ.”
(p) Eph 2:8-9, “For by means of grace you have been saved [with the result that you remain saved forever] through faith; and this [concept of salvation by grace aloone through faith] is not fro yourselves, it is a gift of God; not from works, in order that no one may boast.”
(q) Phil 3:9, “And may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ.”
(r) 2 Tim 3:15, “And that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
(s) 2 Tim 2:11-13 teaches that we cannot lose our salvation, even if we deny our faith in Christ, “Faithful is the Word; for if we have died with Christ [and we have], we shall also live with Christ. If we endure, we shall reign with Him. If we deny Him, He will also deny us [blessing in eternity]. If we do not believe[faith-rest], He remains faithful, He cannot deny Himself.” The Father, Son, and Spirit cannot deny us because they dwell in us as of the moment of salvation.
(t) 1 Jn 5:11-13, “This is the deposition that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has this life. He who does not have the Son does not have this life. These things I have written to you who believe in the person of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.”
(u) Jn 1:12, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the power to become the sons of God, even to those who believe in His name.”
(v) Eph 1:6-7, “Resulting in the praise of the glory of His grace, by which [grace] He has graced us out in the Beloved. In Whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, on the basis of the riches of His grace.”
(w) 2 Tim 1:8-9, “Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, or of me His prisoner; but join with me in suffering with reference to the gospel on the basis of the power of God, who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.”
(x) Heb 2:9, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels for the sake of the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God might taste death as a substitute for all of us.”
Amen!
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