Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
The low-grade works are burned off and the soul enters heaven.
I already have. I considered your personal theory and am not persuaded. Messiah prophesied Peter would deny Him three times, not six times. Each Gospel records the prophecy. Doubling the number denies each individual Gospel account. It seems to me that to denigrate and despise Simon Bar Jonah for sport, trolling as you call it, to get me to step in some web, is uninspired and unprofitable.
I made two assertions, both of them obvious and true.
And you're proving both of them true in this reply. It's OK, if I took them as insults I wouldn't be able to also laugh at your contortions with the Scriptures.
To be wise and clever in one's own eyes is a snare.
Then you did not do it right.
Tenets.
One of the tenets of hermeneutics is to consider each particle, each word, decline the nouns and conjugate the verbs, syntax, consider the idioms, cultue, history, and context. Your translation may say "ran out," but that is not what the Greek says.
For Advent: Wedding at Cana . . . Post #90
Your translation is incorrect. It reads something into the Greek that is not there, linguistically. It comes from a prejudice as to the meaning of the context, and misrepresents the sense of glorifying The Christ and the purpose of the miracle.
Your interpretation, which features Jesus giving drunk people 150 gallons more of intoxicant to just get drunker does not glorify Him or make drunken people cause to believe on Him as Savior.
Make sure you remember that, next time your alter ego tells you to contravene that advice.
Jesus used that didactic ploy in debating the self-serving Pharisees all the time.
LOL. I keep telling you I don't agree. Just because you keep saying that, doesn't mean it is true. BTW, you never answered my question. If you should happen to see me at the pearly gates, are you and St Peter going to welcome me in? We will just have to agree to disagree.
:-)
You are right mom, but I bet it is still a hot place :-)
By the way, we went to visit a hospital today, but, so that certain heads don't explode, I won't tell you what we did. You will have to figure that out all by yourself.
:-)
And here is another issue. You said this, not me. If it is Christian, and not catholic, then who is a Christian? Let me see if I agree or disagree with your answer.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Hmmmmm!
We have noticed that.
True believers have been purified by the blood of Christ.
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Those who say more is necessary should take heed.
Hebrews 10:2 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
If you don't think the blood of Christ was enough there will be consequences. Man doesn't pay for what Christ already paid for.
No, the soul enters heaven but no reward is given for works that were shown to be unworthy.
Which statement proves that Catholics think that works are what saves a person.
Works do not save a person and do not keep someone out of heaven. The works are not the soul.
The soul is not purified by the fire that tests the quality of the person's works, as the soul already has been purified by the blood of Christ.
Rewards are given for works done and the fire tests the quality of the works.
The passage could not be plainer that the fire tests the quality of the works.
Additionally, the passage says that the person is saved AS IF by fire, not BY FIRE.
IOW, the person is saved anyway and makes heaven anyway, but alone, without any rewards or anything to lay down before the feet of Jesus for HIS glory.
Make sure you remember that, next time your alter ego tells you to contravene that advice.
Jesus used that didactic ploy in debating the self-serving Pharisees all the time.
Yes, the same standard applies to all. God is no respecter of persons. Even the Apostle Paul, a jewel in the faith, wrote,
Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord. Mine answer to them that do examine me is this, Have we not power to eat and to drink? Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
- First Corinthians, catholic chapter nine, protestant verses one to twenty seven, as authorized by King James
Jesus used no ploy.
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
- Isaiah, catholic chapter fifty three, protestant verse nine, as authorized by King James
It wouldn't matter what you or I think. That's the scripture, this is what is written. I have faith, so I believe.
Incidentally, yes the Purgatory exists because Christ, in His mercy, set it up for us.
no reward is given
And moreover, the low-grade works are burned off purifying the soul. That's what the Scripture says.
Which statement proves that Catholics think that works are what saves a person.
We believe in what the Church teaches on the subject. Here, thanks to the efforts of the Church and the mercy of God (1 Cor. 3:6), and on the foundation of Jesus Christ (verse 11) his works are tested and inferior works burn, but his soul is saved nonetheless (verse 15).
Read the Holy Bible once in a while, ye Protestants, rather than develop theories out of your own heads, and many of you-all will too be purified of your Protestantism and saved, and accepted in Heaven forever.
No, He didn't. The concept of purgatory is totally made up by the Catholic Church. To think that Christ forgives sins but man then has to somehow answer for them again is contrary to scripture and thus considered another gospel.
>>And moreover, the low-grade works are burned off purifying the soul. That's what the Scripture says.<<
No, that is NOT what scripture says. It says nothing about "purifying the soul" other then by the purifying shed blood of Christ. Even the verse you reference says nothing about "purifying the soul".
>>Read the Holy Bible once in a while<<
We do read scripture to "see if what you teach is true" and find it totally false. It's reading scripture that causes us to understand that what the Catholic Church teaches is in error and rife with paganism.
The Catholic Church has led people astray for centuries and will suffer the wrath of God. Those that stay in that "church" will be "partakers of her plagues".
Christ, in His mercy, died for us so that we don't have to face judgment.
Your translation may say “ran out,” but that is not what the Greek says.
What bible are you using? I am not familiar with the Greek language, but virtually all of the English translations that I have read indicate that the wine ran out. For example:
New International Version: “When the wine was gone”
English Standard Version: “When the wine ran out”
International Standard Version: “When the wine ran out”
American Standard Version: “And when the wine failed”
New King James Version: “And when they ran out of wine”
Did the translators for these bibles all get it wrong?
Another question. Does the Greek word that is used in John 2 for wine translate to mean only fermented wine? Or would the same Greek word also be used in reference to grape juice?
John 2:3 And having been deficient of wine says the mother of Jesus to Him wine not they have.
Both religious and secular writers refer to "new wine" as that just pressed from the grape. "New wine" would not have lasted but a very short time before spoiling. It would be a stretch to think that the wedding party was serving freshly pressed grapes. The waiter also made the comment about the "good wine" and the "poorer wine" unless it was fermented wine.
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