Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[annalex]

Thanks, I responded a minute ago.

[terycarl]

..we pretty..we pretty much take Him at His word... You blood eating vipers! much take Him at His word...

I just knew that would bother you and shouldn't have written it that way. What I meant to say is that WE TAKE HIM AT HIS WORD, unlike those who ignore it...

[Elsie]

 

 

John 14:26

 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.

[annalex]

proof that the traditions you believe in actually came from the apostles

The Church authority comes from Christ and is recorded in the Holy Scripture by the apostles. Some traditions are of course of later origin. For example, one cannot venerate a saint who has not lived yet. Other traditions are probably from apostolic times - such as for example, iconographic traditions, -- but the evidence is gone due to vandalism and passage of time. In either case the Church uses her authority throughout history to propose things for our salvation, for example, by establishing liturgical norms and canons.

[terycarl]

when you can make up your own interpretations to fill your every need???

that picture, I think,is from Fatima where 50,000 to 100,000 people witnessed the miracle of the sun....

but no one is forced to believe it and I didn't see it...

[Elsie]

...the decision stands simply because the Church in her wisdom took it.

Oh; I see...

[metmom]

Caught again and changing your story midstream.

Fact of the matter is, you are stating things that Rome anathematizes people over.

Back pedaling duly noted.

[Elsie]

(common sense prevails over all)

[Elsie]

You violated the Holy Scripture on that one. Big time. Own it.

Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem

 ¹ Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” ² This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. ³ The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. ⁴ When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 ⁵ Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

 ⁶ The apostles and elders met to consider this question. ⁷ After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. ⁹ He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? ¹¹ No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 ¹² The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. ¹³ When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. ¹⁴ Simon^[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. ¹⁵ The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 ¹⁶ “‘After this I will return
   and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
¹⁷ that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’^[b]—
 ¹⁸ things known from long ago.^[c]

 ¹⁹ “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers

 ²² Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. ²³ With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 ²⁴ We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. ²⁵ So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— ²⁶ men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁷ Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. ²⁸ It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ²⁹ You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 ³⁰ So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. ³¹ The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. ³² Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. ³³ After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. ^{[34] [d] 35} But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas

 ³⁶ Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” ³⁷ Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, ³⁸ but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. ³⁹ They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, ⁴⁰ but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. ⁴¹ He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

[Elsie]

.. it is you that is hung up on putting blood in your body

I r?

[annalex]

Strong says that χαριτόω is a verb. κεχαριτωμενη is a past perfect participle. The etymology is from χαρίς, which is "grace". To prefer "favor" to "grace" is Protestant bias, or illiteracy, that Strong reflects.

[Elsie]

What I meant to say is that WE TAKE HIM AT HIS WORD, unlike those who ignore it...

 

 

 

 

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Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

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John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

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1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

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James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

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[annalex]

The verses in focus deal with both the physical body and His body of believers

Some deal with the former and some with the latter. The point remains that the need to "discern the body" and eat it "worthily" are references to the physical body of Christ on the cross and not the body of believers.

[annalex]

you need a mediator to get to the Mediator?

The short answer is yes. Saints are not of course mediators in the same sense Jesus is, because they did not redeem my sins. They are intercessors and teachers: they pray for me, and with me, and they advise me on decisions I need to make and they encourage me. They are a company of holy men that I love to keep.

[annalex]

(Deut.18)

Is about necromancy in the time of the Old Testament when there was no one in heaven. Now there is the entire Church triumphant in heaven.

[Elsie]

The point remains that the need to "discern the body" and eat it "worthily" are references to the physical body of Christ on the cross and not the body of believers.

PROVE IT.

[annalex]

It was wrong of my to suggest following Christ?

[annalex]

Yes, some of your pictures show Buddhists and some show Catholics. I get that.

[Elsie]

The short answer is yes.

HERETIC!

Proverbs 8:17
"I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.

[Elsie]

They are intercessors and teachers: they pray for me, and with me, and they advise me on decisions I need to make and they encourage me. They are a company of holy men that I love to keep.

You hear the voices; too?