Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[Elsie]

You’re an ass but I think you know that.

So true: on the order of Balaam's ride.

Balaam was a fella who THOUGHT he heard from GOD; but...

You DO know the story; don't you?

It's possible that it might get overlooked when the bible gets read in Catholic churches every three years.

So here we go; for those who perhaps have NOT heard the lesson this portion of Scripture teaches:

 

Numbers 22:21-38

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

²¹ Balaam arose in the morning, and saddling his ass went with them.

²² And God was angry. And an angel of the Lord stood in the way against Balaam, who sat on the ass, and had two servants with him.

²³ The ass seeing the angel standing in the way, with a drawn sword, turned herself out of the way, and went into the field. And when Balaam beat her, and had a mind to bring her again to the way,

²⁴ The angel stood in a narrow place between two walls, wherewith the vineyards were enclosed.

²⁵ And the ass seeing him, thrust herself close to the wall, and bruised the foot of the rider. But he beat her again:

²⁶ And nevertheless the angel going on to a narrow place, where there was no way to turn aside either to the right hand or to the left, stood to meet him.

²⁷ And when the ass saw the angel standing, she fell under the feet of the rider: who being angry beat her sides more vehemently with a staff.

²⁸ And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said: What have I done to thee? Why strikest thou me, lo, now this third time?

²⁹ Balaam answered: Because thou hast deserved it, and hast served me ill: I would I had a sword that I might kill thee.

³⁰ The ass said: Am not I thy beast, on which thou hast been always accustomed to ride until this present day? tell me if I ever did the like thing to thee. But he said: Never.

³¹ Forthwith the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel standing in the way with a drawn sword, and he worshipped him falling flat on the ground.

³² And the angel said to him: Why beatest thou thy ass these three times? I am come to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse, and contrary to me:

³³ And unless the ass had turned out of the way, giving place to me who stood against thee, I had slain thee, and she should have lived.

³⁴ Balaam said: I have sinned, not knowing that thou didst stand against me: and now if it displease thee that I go, I will return.

³⁵ The angel said: Go with these men, and see thou speak no other thing than what I shall command thee. He went therefore with the princes.

³⁶ And when Balac heard it he came forth to meet him in a town of the Moabites, that is situate in the uttermost borders of Arnon.

³⁷ And he said to Balaam: I sent messengers to call thee, why didst thou not come immediately to me? was it because I am not able to reward thy coming?

³⁸ He answered him: Lo, here I am: shall I have power to speak any other thing but that which God shall put in my mouth?

[Elsie]

The whole protestant/ stupid for Jesus thing is really sad.

Yeah. We make kitty cry a LOT!

[Elsie]

The whole protestant/ stupid for Jesus thing is really sad.

The joy of the Lord is my strength.

What's your's?

[Elsie]

So which council is the correct teaching and authority?

NEITHER!! you sad PROTestant!

Are they DOCTRINE??

NO!

[Elsie]

Therefore, you can't use any passage in the Bible to prove Luther's doctrine of the Bible as the sole, or ultimate, rule of faith, since no passage in the Bible refers to the Bible as a whole.

Except...

If any man won't listen to the church...

[Elsie]

See tagline.....

(...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith... if The Blessed Lady of the Perpetual Headache will lead us to Him)

[verga]

There is a huge difference between Protestants and prots.

You can have an intelligent conversation with a protestant. Prots give one liner replies, frequently in the form of a joke that does not address the issue. They will focus on a single point that is tangential at best.

A protestant is conversant in history, They understand more than the lies spoon fed to them about the Spanish Inquisition, and the reformation.

Prots HAVE to repeat the lies they have heard over and over to make sure it takes hold. They live and die by Foxe's book of Martyrs as much as the Readers Digest Bible they claim to follow.

The worst prots Are the ex-Catholics. They were generally cafeteria Catholics at best. They leave due to either poor Catechesis or a sin they did not want to deal with in confession.

Above all they have to justify their own departure by trying to drag others out of the Catholic Church. This way they can say: "See how bad it is EVERYONE is leaving."

[Elsie]

I especially liked the word one of them used: frigid.

Poor baby...

Would ASEXUAL or a different medical term help ease your pain?

Your chosen religion's Queen of Heaven is quite Elizabethan.

[Elsie]

Special pleading is a fallacy.

Is it time; again; for the List?

[Elsie]

Well, you’re in a very specious mood today!

 

 

Well; I see what you MEAN; but can you explain to our listeners just what YOU find that is error?

 

 

 

 

spe·cious

ˈspēSHəs/

adjective

adjective: specious

1. superficially plausible, but actually wrong.

   "a specious argument"

   • misleading in appearance, especially misleadingly attractive.

     "the music trade gives Golden Oldies a specious appearance of novelty"

     synonyms:

     misleading, deceptive, false, fallacious, unsound, spurious, casuistic, sophistic "specious reasoning

[Elsie]

If it weren't for Apostolic Tradition, there would be no New Testament.

IF it were NOT for the claims of Rome; ALL 'Apostolic Tradition' would be found in the New Testament.

[Elsie]

Still with the taunts.

Getting traction with them?

[Elsie]

I do believe these people are atheist trolls, not Protestants.

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

 

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

[Mark17]

Perhaps an angular angel :-)

I am pretty sure that is true. The angels were looking at me from all angles, and were probably thinking what a chump I was and there was not a ray of hope for me, but I am reminded of a song:

Just look what's a happened to me,
I'm a new creation, I'm soul set free,
and the man I was you no longer see,
just look what's a happened to me

It is already New Year's Day here, and we are heading to the beach for the day. My wife's sister in law is here, and she is a Muslim, so we are making sure she gets a heavy dose of Bible doctrine, so hopefully one day, she will also be set free from the scourge of Islam.

[Elsie]

Still with the smug, self important arrogance in your demeanor.

I pray that some day a boy will point out you have no clothes.

[rwa265]

Would ASEXUAL or a different medical term help ease your pain?

---

Celibate would be less perjorative.

[Elsie]

Let her tell YOU what she knows about ISA, and the people of the book.

Then you can segue into what the ‘book’ REALLY says...

God be with you!

[Elsie]

Celibate would be less perjorative.

Why would a JEWISH husband keep a CELIBATE wife around?

[Elsie]

Above all they have to justify their own departure by trying to drag others out of the Catholic Church. This way they can say: "See how bad it is EVERYONE is leaving."

---

I couldn’t believe how few people were at Mass this past Christmas; not too long ago (not even ten years) we were giving up our seats and standing in the back...

 

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3242197/posts?page=99#99

 

 

[GBA]

Fwiw, now that you're on the receiving end, have you ever noticed how Only a Pharisee Will Use Bible Verses to Argue?

I stumbled onto that and thought it might be interesting given the circumstances.

Happy New Year!