Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
You just typed that!
Keep YOUR word and DO it!
Neither.
Nothing.
The ROMISH woman has NOTHING to do with the woman who bore Jesus in the flesh.
In post 2476 I recounted the conversation.
Re-read it.
R2z said that he imagined you wanted him dead and you said that no, he wasn’t imagining it.
I would have agreed but now I see there are 200 posts for me to catch up which I will have to do later.
You simply have not been following what I’ve been saying throughout all my posts. Read back through them and see if I haven’t been saying that if it looks like worship, walks like worship, and quacks like worship, then it is worship. At least the burden is on others to prove otherwise.
You can’t perform the same acts to show “deep respect” as you perform to show worship. If you do, then you owe an explanation.
As you say, people bow before kings and emperors in the bible, and even today there is bowing slightly from the waist as a demonstration of respect. We must factor these things in.
Oh that was just to clever by half!! The comment was made “I can’t find that in any Bible I’ve ever read....even the KJV”. Having read them all ey? Interesting that all those version actually do include the phrase isn’t it?
I’ll also just leave you to play your word games with God. He said “don’t bow down to them”. Play you semantics game with Him. Their His rules.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
I thought you'd react that way, but I was hoping you'd answer the question as posted instead.
I already know your opinions about Mary and Mormons. You're one of those "on a mission" types and not at all shy about it, so maybe I made it too personal for you to help my understanding.
Thanks anyway.
Amen.
External evidence
"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen." (Matthew 6:9-13b, KJV)
The underlined portion above is called the doxology of the Lord's prayer, or the ending to the Protestant version of the Lord's prayer. Roman Catholic and modern Bible versions of the prayer do not have this ending. This powerful doxology has been falsely characterized as a late addition as it is not found in the two earliest Greek witnesses of Matthew 6:13 - Sinaiticus and Vaticanus both from the 4th century. Yet it is found in the third earliest Greek witness of Matthew 6:13, Codex Washingtonensis from the 4th to 5th century. Hence a manuscript testifying for the doxology is preceded by only two adverse manuscripts, and that by just one or a half century. The doxology exists in the majority of Byzantine manuscripts (Nestle-Aland: Novum Testamentum Graece, 27th revised edition (2006)).
Codex Washingtonensis
Codex Washingtonensis is housed at the Freer Gallery, Sackler Museum, Smithsonian Institution, Washington D.C. and the passage of the Lord's Prayer can be viewed at the website of The Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts: http://www.csntm.org/Manuscript/View/GA_032 . Since uncials can be difficult to read, a photograph of the leaf containing the Lord's Prayer has been reproduced here (for non-profit educational fair use purposes) with the prayer underlined and the doxology in particular underlined in blue. The words of the Lord's Prayer in Codex Washingtonensis match the words of the Textus Receptus word for word, letter by letter for the most part.
Patristic Evidence
Some early Church fathers, such as Origen, Tertullian and Cyprian, omit the doxology, proving that some or perhaps many early Christians did not accept the doxology. However, these early omissions do not prove that the doxology was invented at a later time. Roman Catholics throughout history have omitted the doxology even during times when the doxology was prevalent in manuscripts or printed editions of the Gospel of Matthew. The Roman Catholic rejection of the doxology has had more to do with tradition rather than conclusions based on contemporaneous manuscript evidence. Likewise, the omissions by some early Christians could have been due to an early tradition rather than the absence of the doxology in their contemporaneous manuscripts.
We know that the doxology is very ancient because John Chrysostom (347–407) expounded the doxology in his homily, Homily 19 on St. Matthew, at paragraph 10 [Download a PDF of the Lord's Prayer portion of the Homily HERE]. He treats the words as those of Christ himself and says nothing of the alleged spuriousness of the words. This 4th century Archbishop of Constantinople would have had manuscripts that were earlier than what we have today. The earliest variant of the doxology appears in the Didache, an anonymous late first century treatise (click here to read it in Greek). It reads, "ὅτι σοῦ ἐστιν ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας", thereby omitting "η βασιλεια και" and "αμην". Some critics claim that this incomplete variant of the doxology proves the evolution of a spurious doxology. Such a conclusion is unwarranted, however, because the Didache is a slightly different version of the prayer to begin with. Instead of "τοις ουρανοις" (literally, "the heavens") the Didache has "τῷ οὐρανῷ" ("the heaven") - this change suggests that an editor converted the Hebraic expression of a plural heavens, as in שמים (shamayim), to the Greek idea of heaven as a singular location of God's dwelling-place. Also, instead of "τα οφειληματα ημων" ("our debts") the Didache has "τὴν ὀφειλη" ("debt"). The fact is that the Lord's prayer in the Didache has the doxology, albeit as an erroneous variant.
Describing the Vatican (Home of the False Prophet)
Rev 18:
[12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
[13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
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>> “What’s with the ISIS thingie, you a member? “ <<
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Commander?
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How so? Please show your work.
John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Acts 16:27-31 When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.” And the jailer called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3:20-30 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Romans 10:9-13 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Ephesians 2:1-10And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
And there are still many more beyond that.....
Yup, and *Because I said so*, doesn’t count.
James also said in the same discussion:
James 2:
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
So there is that right in the middle of James point.
The misunderstanding comes when people pluck verses from context.
THIS question?
Was there something else in a n invisible font that I missed?What happens if to you personally, Elsie, considering all you've posted about it, if you have gotten Mary's status wrong and she truly is the Queen of Heaven and is working now to prepare us all for her Son's return?
You betcha!!
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