Posted on 11/05/2014 5:18:11 PM PST by Gamecock
Pastor Joel Osteen’s TV ad announcing his new show on Sirius Radio begins with the promise, “We can have victory every single day.” Next come scenes of his pastoral team on stage during a church service, followed by a long shot of the congregation that looks as if it was filmed in the Super Bowl with every seat filled. (He reportedly has the largest congregation in the United States.)
Finally, he comes back on screen and declares to the audience, “There is a power in you greater than any power that comes against you.”
After seeing the ad for about the 200th time, I sent the following email message to some friends:
I’ve seen the Osteen ad many, many times and my reaction has been the same each time—I have felt a powerful urge to convert . . . . . . to Buddhism!
What made me descend to such curmudgeonly pique? Was it because Osteen’s face appears locked in a smile that shouts “insincere” (at least to me) or because he and his wife call to mind the 1970s and 80s preaching duo of unhappy memory, Jim and Tammy Bakker? Was it because Osteen’s trademark black hair is beautifully coiffed and boasts innumerable curls in the back? Might I be jealous of that?
The honest answer to all three questions is “yes.” But there is another, more substantive reason for my negative reaction. It is that Osteen’s message is presumptuous and misleading, not to mention smarmy and glib. (I know, I know, smarminess and glibness are not serious flaws, so let’s put them aside.)
First, presumptuous. The line “you have power in you greater than any power that can come against you” obviously refers to more than simple talent and potential and probably to more than being created in the image and likeness of God. The most likely intended meaning is the gift of the Holy Spirit that Christians call grace.
The problem, however, is his notion that this “power” (grace) is automatically in us by virtue of our being alive. In contrast, Christianity teaches that grace is a gift that God gives us but does not force upon us. We either accept it or reject it, and that choice determines whether we experience its power. This crucial fact Osteen seems to ignore when he presumes that everyone possesses grace automatically.
Now let’s consider misleading. At the heart of Osteen’s message is the promise of daily success in life: “We can have victory every single day.” Surely he is not referring to the victory of being received into paradise, which comes only once (if we are lucky), after death. What then does he mean? I consulted Osteen’s website for the answer and found this:
You have been blessed for unprecedented success. God has healing with your name on it, new dreams with your name on it [sic], promotions with your name on it [sic]. You are a child of Almighty God. He has already gone before you and lined up promotion, victory, and favor in your life.
With the exception of healing, these things come under the heading “worldly success,” so that is what Osteen must mean by “victory.” Oddly, however, he denies that this is his meaning. For example, he has said, “If prosperity means God wants us to be blessed and healthy and have good relationships then yes, I’m a prosperity teacher. But if it’s about money, no, I never preach about money . . .”
Osteen is being disingenuous. His themes may technically not be about money, but they are about “promotion,” “favor,” “abundance,” etc., so they might as well be about money. Consider a more specific example from Osteen’s Message # 619, “It’s Already Yours”:
Psalm 8:5 says, “You have crowned him with favor and honor.” What does this mean for you today? It means right now, there are blessings with your name on them—healing, promotion, good breaks, houses, businesses, contracts—that already belong to you. The question is, when are you going to go get what’s already yours? [Bold added]
The word “money” doesn’t appear in this passage, but the words in bold certainly stand for financial success and that spells financial prosperity, also known as money.
At this point readers who embrace Osteen’s “prosperity gospel” would no doubt respond “What’s wrong with saying God rewards those who love him with prosperity?” My first impulse is to respond, “If there is nothing wrong with the prosperity gospel, why is Osteen so determined not to be associated with it?” But here is a more meaningful response:
What is wrong with prosperity preaching is that it grossly distorts the Christian message.
To begin with, Isaiah didn’t prophesy a prosperous Christ but a suffering servant who would be “despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; and like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.” (Isaiah 53: 3)
Then, too, Jesus was born in a stable and lived a modest life with Mary and Joseph, so it is a reasonable assumption that neither Joseph nor Jesus was the sort of carpenter whose work brought that age’s equivalent of Ethan Allen or Thomasville prices.
In the most famous of all sermons, Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount, not a single one of the blessings mentioned suggests daily victory of any kind, let alone financial victory. They speak instead of daily spiritual stress, mourning, hunger, and persecution. The fact that Jesus called those who suffer these burdens “blessed” is best understood as a promise of eventual consolation or reward beyond this vale of tears.
The only place in Scripture where Jesus and prosperity are mentioned together is when Satan offers it to Him—“The devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. ‘All this I will give you,’ he said, ‘if you will bow down and worship me.’” (Matthew 4: 8-9) In rejecting Satan’s offer Jesus did not condemn prosperity, to be sure, but He certainly didn’t laud it either.
Jesus did, of course, tell his disciples that they could achieve anything if they had sufficient faith. For example, he said that they could move a mountain. (Matthew 21: 21-22) But in the next breath He added that the way to do so is to “ask in prayer, believing,” underscoring that the power obviously resides in God rather than in us.
Jesus often reminded his disciples that the way to follow him was to deny themselves and take up their crosses every day. (Matthew 10:38 and 16:24, Luke 9:23, Luke 14: 27 and 18:18-22) The references to crosses obviously did not concern daily victories but, on the contrary, disappointments and sufferings. In our time those would include unemployment, accidents, the wounds of war, deadly diseases, emotional disorders, and the infirmities of old age.
Jesus provided the supreme example of suffering courageously as He prayed, sweating blood, in the Garden of Gethsemane, was mercilessly scourged at the pillar and humiliated by the Roman soldiers, crowned with thorns, and nailed to a cross. Moreover, in the final throes of suffocation and exsanguination, He felt forsaken by God.
Down through the centuries, the message that has framed the Christian perspective on living has been Jesus’ words, “take up your cross and follow me.” His disciples were the first to do so, and every one of them suffered a violent death. The early Christians were required to practice their faith in secret or face imprisonment and death. And Christian martyrdom continues in our time. In 2013 alone, 2,123 Christians were murdered for practicing their faith.
Promising daily victory and worldly success insults all those who maintain their faith in Jesus despite suffering and disappointment. Rather than raising their spirits and giving them hope, it tempts them to think, “If I am not prospering, maybe God doesn’t love me.” Worse, it tempts the wealthy and successful to believe that they really are more virtuous and deserving than the poor and thus to adopt the attitude of the Pharisee: “God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.” (Luke: 18:11)
Whenever I hear Osteen or others preach the prosperity gospel, I am reminded of Jesus’ advice to the young man who lived honorably and wondered what more he could do to achieve an even better spiritual state. Jesus did not tell him to claim and enjoy the first century equivalent of “promotion[s], good breaks, houses, businesses, contracts.” Instead, he advised him to “go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” (Mark 10: 21-22)
The prosperity gospel is understandably appealing in this self-absorbed age, but because it replaces the cross with a dollar sign, it bears no resemblance to the Gospel of Jesus.
As was
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (Matthew 7:13)
"Many" sadly includes vast majority of RCs (and plenty of so-called Prots), from popes to the latest proabortion, prosodomote promuslim RC pols whom she also treats as members in life and in death.
Will The Lord abandon us? No, He is there with us. Different persons have different purposes in GOD's plan for man. One may seem to have an untouched life as far as misfortunes go and be evil or good, another may try their utmost to walk in GOD's Word and endure hardships for reasons we likely are not to know or understand in this lifetime. To borrow a phrase from a songwriter Joe South "I beg your pardon I never promised you a Rose Garden." Christ told His followers they would be mocked, rebuked, stoned, cursed, shunned, and killed in some cases even by persons thinking they were doing GOD's Will.
Do miracles happen? Yes, I strongly believe they do. Some will & some won't. Does that mean because they don't GOD loves someone less? No, The Bible doesn't say that. Paul asked for a healing {either spiritual or physical} that was denied him. He was told "My Grace is sufficient for today".
Adversity has created some very successful Ministries such as Joni Tada who was injured in a swimming accident at about age 16. Today she is 64 years old IIRC and overcame a second serious health challenge recently with advanced Breast Cancer. Would he ministry to the severely disabled have been formed had she not been injured? She is a full quadriplegic. Likely not. In our weaknesses God's Grace and Strength works the strongest.
The typical generic response to the prosperity preachers when riches or healing doesn't come it is the believers fault due to lack of faith. That is very wrong. It's no ones fault. It can be events occurring in the normal course of life but GOD can work through us in our adversity and weaknesses if we submit. It may still be a rough row to hoe so to speak but just as The Lord was in the fiery furnace, if we call on Him and allow Him he is with us right beside us in our trials and tribulations we may not understand the whys or how comes of.
The prosperity teachings promote greed. It's taken down many a preacher as well that teach it because they end up living beyond their ministries means. It doesn't have to be a televangelist. I know a man who had a local church it happened to. It was to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars taken and his lifestyle was one of riches. He was a blue collar worker and a preacher. The money taken was not a contracted agreement reached with deacons or elders either.
Problem is that Osteen doesn't specify and so although Christians know and understand what he is talking about, non-Christians don't and are led astray.
While he's not outright lying, he's not telling the full truth and that IS deception, therefore from the enemy.
The Bible tells us that all Scripture is God breathed, inspired as the Holy Spirit led men to write.
It's a given that it's inerrant and infallible.
Unless you need something besides God's word on it.
However, Jesus tells us that God's word is truth. That in itself says it's inerrant.
You are certainly violating prosperity theology?
Where is the Roman Catholic commentary on the Bible that gives a verse by verse interpretation of the entire Bible so that there's unity in what Catholics believe?
You are aware, aren't you, that the EO don't acknowledge the authority of the pope among other things?
And that there are many Catholic rites. Lots of different interpretations of something.......
The church I attend isn't like Catholicism either. It's no clone of it.
I follow a Savior, not a church or religion.
Interesting isn't it, how many Catholics type the word Bible with a small *b*?
Very telling about their attitude towards the word of God itself and especially considering they claim the RCC wrote the Bible.
AMEN.
Money doesn’t and can’t buy what I need from Him the most and it isn’t just health issues.
Also telling, is when people who refuse to capitalize Bible, will actually capitalize the titles of lesser books.
not many. I have theses stored.
Yet
Another
Catholic
Versus
Protestant
Thread
Refuse?
Bible is merely the word BOOK in Greek.
God's word is truth. That in itself says it's inerrant.
How did Judas Iscariot die?
Based on Biblical history and a Biblical insight into the divine nature and character, I find it's dubious to assume that the Our Lord would let nigh unto 100% of His Church go disastrously astray for, say, 1500-2000 years.
Not if the Church is the Body of Christ and we are His members.
Not if Our Lord is the Good Shepherd who would leave 99 sheep on the hillside in order to seek and search for even one which was lost.
Thank you, Lord, for that Church of yours revealed in Revelation, a great multitude of every race, tongue and nation, so great that no man could number it.
"Other Christian: 7th Day Adventist, Churches of God, Messianic Christians, Unitarian, LDS, etc."
I guess we did skip Hazel Motes' Holy Church of Christ Without Christ, "where the blind don't see and the lame don't walk and what's dead stays that way". Apologies all around! :o)
Based on Biblical history and a Biblical insight into the divine nature and character, I find it's dubious to assume that the Our Lord would let 100% of His Church go disastrously astray for, say, 1500-2000 years.
Not if the Church is the Body of Christ and we are His members.
Not if Our Lord is the Good Shepherd who would leave 99 sheep on the hillside in order to seek and search for even one which was lost.
Thank you, Lord, for that Church of yours revealed in Revelation, a great multitude of every race, tongue and nation, so great that no man could number it.
Which recourse to a straw man is typical, but i never said that 100% of His Church went disastrously astray for 1500-2000 years, as in fact that would be impossible in the light of what i said.
Not if the Church is the Body of Christ and we are His members.
Indeed, and as said, it is " the body of Christ which overcomes and continues, by God's grace and to His glory. Amen.
But that the leadership of the visible church can come to the point where there is almost an entire abandonment of equity in ecclesiastical judgments; of discipline in morals, of reverence in divine things, and thus true religion was almost extinct, leading multitudes astray, and that the true Church had to be sought outside the then-visible institution, which required reformation, cannot be denied.
Even if some RCs imagine otherwise, as they do that a perpetual assuredly infallible magisterium is essential for discernment and establishment of Truth, and of what is of God, and that common people cannot be correct in disagreeing with the historical stewards of Scripture. .
Matthew 27:4-5 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. (5) And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.Versus:
Acts 1:16-19 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. (17) For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. (18) Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (19) And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.Your problem is that these two passages are rather easily reconciled, and not only so, but there are a number of theories by which to do it. The most typical is that Matthew describes the proximate cause of the death. But for the fact of hanging himself, he would not have died at that time. Whereas Peter in Acts is describing the same event in it's more notorious aftermath. The scenario would have played out like this: Judas finds a tree near a cliff, throws a rope over a branch, secures it, then ties the other end around his neck, and jumps off. This is an amateur job, and so any number of outcomes are possible. Did the rope hold? Maybe the knot slipped and he fell onto some sharp rocks below. Or possibly the rope and the knot held, and he hanged there dead for days, dangling in the sun, during which time his body would have swollen, his skin integrity lessened until he finally came apart and hit the ground, bursting open like an easily ruptured water balloon.
Multiple versions. I see. But Judas did die right? That part isn't in error, is it?
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