Posted on 08/30/2014 7:00:33 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Victoria Osteen, wife of megachurch preacher and New York Times bestselling author Joel Osteen, is now facing withering criticism online for a viral video clip in which she is shown telling congregants at Lakewood Church that obedience, worship and church attendance is not for God but themselves.
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side in approval. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy…"
"So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered.
Erick Erickson, politicly conservative blogger and editor-in-chief of the blog site RedState.com, summed up his reaction to Mrs. Osteen's pronouncement in a quote from the 1995 movie "Billy Madison."
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely, idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent, response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. May God have mercy on your soul," it ended.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaE9w8RNJao
“joy may be full”
Joy is not happiness.
“worship is for our happiness and we should do it for our happiness.”
So if we don’t leave happy, worship has failed.
Like many cultists; Vicky has that ‘Marshall Applewhite’ look going on...
You mean like the Christians being slaughtered by ISIS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaE9w8RNJao
If Joel Osteen considers Mormons to be brothers in Christ that is fine with me.
You mean your wife, daughter, mom, Freepers like me?
No, I like to hear women talk, I mean women should not be teaching or preaching to the congregation.
You are right about the notion of feeling good being simplistic. Otoh, when you peal away the many layers, it is rare that actions deviate from the most basic motivations of either gaining pleasure or avoiding pain.
The argument then is which is the stronger motivation, gain pleasure or avoid pain. One of the biggest determinants of a "successful" person in life is their impulse control and how they handle delayed gratification. This is true for a Christian life or a secular life.
Perhaps altruism in its most pure form would be found in those who sacrifice themselves to save another, who give no thought to themselves, their welfare, even their own life.
These acts raise "love your neighbor as yourself" to the next level and, in the moment, there is no thought of gratification, just action. That might fit the definition of altruism as a truly selfless act.
I’m not into Joel Osteen’s preaching or his wife’s commentary. But this is an opening for this paper “Why Commandments?”
http://www.bswett.com/1978-05Commandments.html
It far eclipses what Mrs. Osteen said; it begins:
“Why does God give commandments to human beings? If God is omnipotent, why doesn’t He just make us do what He wants? The quick answer is, “Because He gave us free will.” But why did God give us free will? The flip-side of free will is free won’t—which means that we have the power to disobey God. That’s an awful lot of power. There are times when I think things would go a lot smoother on this pretty little blue-and-white planet if we didn’t have that power, but we do, and it’s obvious that we do.
and concludes: “Conclusion: God gives us commandments because He loves us. As Moses said in his farewell address to the children of Israel, “I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live.” (Deut. 30:15, 19) That is the central theme of God’s commandments. They are not for someone else’s benefit. They are not given to us to impose on others. They are given to each of us for our own benefit, but no one can make us obey them, not even God Himself.”
Please read the “red meat” in between these two pieces of bread I’ve posted.
being a protestant she most likely believes Paul to be the father of Christianity.
Speaking as a fmr Catholic turned Baptist I don’t know anyone who claims Paul to be the “father of Christianity.”
Are you offended when people claim Catholics are pagans for praying to beings other than Jesus? Do you pray to Mary or any other person?
On the subject of worship, is it to be imagined that God somehow needs us to worship Him? That if we fail to do so we're somehow harming Him?
A gift might fit as it implies nothing in return, otherwise it wouldn't be a gift, it would be an obligation.
Personally, I have to admit that I get something for my giving. Sometimes I give because it makes me feel good. Sometimes because I think I should. Sometimes I feel I'm paying back for the unexpected good done to me in the past. Some are more altruistic than others, but is it altruism? I get something from each.
Perhaps altruism is found in forgiving others for their trespasses against us?
As you can see, I have no answer, just more questions. Much in life seems to be like this the closer I look at it. Maybe I need glasses?
What I am saying is the purpose of our lives is to fellowship with Him.
That is why we were made. That is my benefit. to worship Him, the Creator of all things.. I am promised an inheritance. I need not worry about me, here or now. The enemy runs this rock for now and that includes the world of religion.
Praise Yah, His Kingdom is coming where His rules and government will reign and the enemy will be gone. There will be 1000 years to grow the mustard seeds in pure Truth.
1000 years to perfect the Bride. To prepare the Bride for eternity..
We almost cant help being Rahabs here on earth.
We don’t know how much we haven’t been taught.. and its because we have teachers like Osteen.
That being said it is so not about me. It is all about HIM. Worship brings Him glory. Worshiping Him is my job. There is nothing wrong with loving your job. It is a very good gig indeed, an honor and a privilege and a beautiful joy, but HE is the focus. I am blessed, but that is so not my purpose or reason for being there, just a side benefit.
Are you offended when people claim Catholics are pagans for praying to beings other than Jesus? Do you pray to Mary or any other person?
I don’t know anyone who claims Paul to be the “father of Christianity.”>>>>>
I do not attach any name to myself, but have been to a lot of protestant Churches and I do not agree.
But that is not the point which is if some one knows enough about scripture to preach it then they should also know when they are told not to preach.
I do not mean to criticize Victoria Osteen, she is most likely a lot better woman than I am a man, I am just saying people do leave them selves open to such when they ignore what scripture plainly teaches.
Any one can and should wonder if they ignore one part or get it wrong what else do they have wrong?
**Speaking as a fmr Catholic turned Baptist **
You are always a Catholic due to the mark of Baptism and Confirmation on your soul. God will ask you about that at the moment you die.
We welcome you back to the Catholic Church at any time. Sit down with a priest and get you questions answered.
I was giving you a hard time. I agree with you.
Are you trying to make this about me?
No. It was simply a response to your claim that protestants believe Paul to be the “father of Christianity.”
Your comment seems a lot like those made by liberals when they claim conservatives hate poor people and destroy the environment.
I do not mean to criticize Victoria Osteen
Oh...and concerning the Osteen’s, they seem a lot like Jim and Tammy Faye with slightly better handlers.
Oh...and concerning the Osteen’s, they seem a lot like Jim and Tammy Faye with slightly better handlers.
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