Posted on 06/27/2014 7:44:48 AM PDT by Salvation
You don’t find it idiotic that someone with opinions about the Catholic Church would not ask a Catholic about it and when information is offered to him, would dismiss it as “rah-rah”?
What did I “block or ignore”?
Misinformation is more like it. I dismiss it as "rah-rah" because you offer no PROOF other than you can tell me "that the same Church Christ promised to build in Matthew 16:18, that spoke in the multitude of tongues in Acts 2:11 is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church" and I am supposed to take your word for it because you can repeat it over and over.
Let's start with this one. I listed differences between the Church that Jesus founded and yours. Would you like for me to list them again? Posting #38 I believe. Also add that Jesus (as was His custom) and the Disciples observed the Sabbath to the list. But the fact the Catholic Church held political power and wealth in the past would seem pretty much like a kingdom of this world and not the one Jesus talked about.
I read the Fathers of the Church daily. They lived in the pre-medieval period, many before the First Council of Nicaea (AD 325). While I detect differences of opinion between them, the center of gravity, so to say, of their teaching is the Catholic doctrines we hold today, that distinguish us as Catholics today. The Early Church had the Holy Liturgy that culminated in the Eucharist, which was held to be real body and blood of Christ. It had hierarchical clergy, often celibate, tasked to teach the Gospel and lead into the Sacraments. It venerated saints and prayed to crucifixes and icons. Some things changed since then, because the times changed, — like the availability of books in vernacular, — but the Catholic core beliefs are in evidence in the Holy Scripture and in the writings of the Fathers of the Church.
So that is the proof. It may not be convincing to you, but then I suggest you examine your faith critically and ask yourself what evidence do you have that your belief system has anything to do with the Church of the Apostles founded by Jesus?
2. A rosary is a form of praying beads found in many cultures and several religions. Whether the Jews in 1 c AD used praying beads I don't know and don't care. It is like saying that because we wear pressed pants and neckties we cannot be authentic Christians.
3. Veneration of Mary (not worship and not adoration; it is helpful to have some familiarity with the meaning of words if you want to be taken seriously in debate) as "second Eve" dates at least to mid-Second Century where St. Justin Martyr describes Mary in admiring terms (Dialog with Trypho, Ch. 100). But is is compatible with the tone of the first two chapters in the gospel of Luke where Elizabeth venerates her, and with the pericope when a woman in the crowd does the same, and Jesus adjusts her prayer without forbidding it (Luke 11:27-28).
4. Queen of Heaven is a reference to Rev 12.
5. Regarding crucifixes, why should I not have the image of Christ on me? Am I not required to imitate Christ, especially in His suffering? Also, what do you think the phrase "before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been set forth, crucified among you" (Galatians 3:1) describes if not a crucifix?
6. "Hail Mary" is a direct quote from the Bible in the first part and a reference to John 19:26 in the second part.
7. St. Paul praises celibacy in 1 Cor. 7. Celibacy of priests is not a defining characteristic of the Catholic Church as Eastern rite Catholics have married priests and so do we in the Western Church under some circumstances. Yes, in the main part in the Latin Church married men cannot be ordained. That is because we are fortunate to have enough men who are willing to be celibate as St. Paul advises. In our over-sexualized culture it is a very good thing.
8. Indeed, the Early Church did not have magnificent cathedrals because it was persecuted. That is not a defining characteristic of the Early Church. Surely, if you believe that the first Christians were a lot like the Jews you should then admit that a desire to build a splendid temple is very much a feature of the early Church also.
9. The prayer of Christ directed to Peter (Luke 22:32) where Christ prays for Peter to confirm other apostles is a functional description of papacy.
10. Selling of indulgences was a brief episode in the history of the Church; it was condemned as a method of fundraising. You can earn an indulgence today, of course, but you cannot buy it. That the Early Church collected money is evidenced several times in the Bible, see for example, Acts 5:1-10.
11. The persecutions of Protestants by Catholics were reciprocal and often done not by the Church herself but by the governments which equated heresy to treason. For some of them the Church has apologized. Certainly we should not tolerate heresy; see for example, 1 Corinthians 1:13.
Suit yourself. You asked and I answered; what thoughts you have in your head about it is your business, not mine.
A Bible quote? Yes. There's lots of quotes in the Bible including one from a donkey. If I see Mary in person in the flesh, I'll hail her. Otherwise it is a ritual that borders on paganism.
1. The Jewish Law was to circumcise men (Genesis 17:11). The Catholic Church abolished it. (Act 15).
2. I like to pray to God, and God alone, in the company of Mary my Mother and with the rosary in my hand. My Church approves. You disapprove? Bite me.
3. I love Mary and would give her all the energy I have because Jesus loves her, not because of “requirements”. And again, who are you to teach me anything?
4. Regardless of how you (who are you, anyway?) interpret Rev. 12 (which speaks of mother of Christ anyway), Jesus gave us a kingdom of Heaven. Kingdoms have a king, that’s Him, and also they have a Queen, that is her.
5. Jesus wouldn’t wear a crucifix, He “wore” the very Cross. For the disciples, see Galatians again and don’t tell me Paul wrote just of their imagination when he wrote “before whose eyes”. And again, since when what people wear is a definitive content of their religion?
6. I gave you Bible references for Hail Mary. When I pray, I don’t quote the Bible, usually, anyway, and I pray to saints often because they are alive.
7. Paul said about celibacy that he wishes everyone were like him, celibate. The Church knows the limits as well: if you don’t want to be a priest, you are free to marry.
9. Yes, Peter denied Christ, and Christ forgave him and still told him to “pastor His sheep”. We had worse popes than that. The point was not that Peter was free from sin, but that he was the first pope functionally.
10. Selling of indulgences was an innovation that was forbidden by the Church in a timely fashion.
11. It is indeed NOT all right to burn a man alive for his moral convictions. That is why we don’t do it anymore.
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