Francis and Four Points of Apostate Action: Islamic prayers to be held at the Vatican

CFN update: June 6, 2014 Francis and four points of Apostate Action Islamic prayers to be held at the Vatican

This Sunday, June 8, Pope Francis will allow for the first time in history Islamic prayers from the Quoran to be recited at the Vatican. The service is said to be in the cause of Peace in the Middle East (see report below). Members of Judaism will be part of the interfaith gathering as well. This radical initiative is scandalous on at least four counts:

1) The Prayers of Islam worship a false god; not the true God who is the Blessed Trinity; not the true God Jesus Christ, who said "No man comes to the Father but through Me." Speaking on the modernist notion that various religions worship the same God, the eminent theologian Father Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange explained that such a tenet denies the principle of non-contradiction, which is the most fundamental principle of reason. Father Garrigou-Lagrange explains, “It is injurious to say that God would consider with equanimity all religions while one teaches truth and one teachers error, when one promises the good and one promises the evil. To say this would be to affirm that God would be indifferent to good and evil, to what is honest and shameful.”[1]

2) Pope Francis' act fosters the religious indifferentism condemned by the Catholic Church and condemned by reason. Great popes such as Leo XII, Pius IX, Gregory XVI and others all condemned religious indifferentism; a false system that gives the impression that any religioun is good enough for salvation. Along with the popes already mentioned, Pope Pius VIII forcefully condemned this error in the encyclical Traditi humilati nostrae:

“And this is the lethal system of religious indifferentism, which is repudiated by the light of natural reason itself. In this light we are warned that, among many religions which disagree with one another, when one is true, that there can be no association with light and darkness. Against these repeaters of ancient errors, the people must be assured, Venerable Brethren, that the profession of the Catholic Faith is alone the true one, since the Apostle tells us that there is one Lord and one baptism. As Jerome says, the man who eats the Lamb outside of this house is profane, and the man who is not in the ark of Noah is going to perish in the deluge. Neither is there any other name apart from the Name of Jesus given to men by which we must be saved. He who believes will be saved, and he who shall not have believed will be condemned.”

It seems safe to say the Papa Bergoglio would blush with embarrassment at this authentic Catholic teaching, and would probably die rather than reiterate it, or rather than conduct his Vatican and ecclesiastical policies accordingly.

3) It turns Peace in the Middle East into an idol, a false god that must be appeased at the expense of the ordinary and universal magisterium of the Church since the time of the Apostles. The First Commandment does not say, "Thou shalt not be an atheist," but says rather, "Thou shalt not have strange gods before me." The trampling of Catholic truth and practice in a quest for a humanistic peace is, effectively, apostate actions in the service of an idol, a false god; the ever-illusive "peace in the Middle East"

4) The act will bring punishment rather than blessings. Belgium’s Cardinal Mercier explained that the First World War was actually a punishment to the world for governments placing the one true Church on the same level with false religions. How much worse when this is done by Catholic leaders, in the quest of a humanistic peace. In his 1918 Pastoral Letter, Cardinal Mercier said:

“In the name of the Gospel, and in the light of the Encyclicals of the last four Popes; Gregory XVI, Pius IX, Leo XIII, and Pius X, I do not hesitate to affirm that this indifference to religion which puts on the same level the religion of divine origin and the religions invented by men, in order to include them in the same skepticism, is the blasphemy which calls down chastisement on society far more than the sins of individuals and families.”[2]

The very inter-religious prayer that is supposed to foster peace, as Cardinal Mercier explains, is a form of blasphemy and will end up to be a source of chastisement.

Where are the Cardinals, bishops and priests who have the faith and fortitude to openly denounce Francis' actions, and to warn their faithful against this defiance of the Catholic Faith?

As Father Frederick Faber warned, "Where there is no hatred of heresy, there is no holiness".

Making matters worse, Francis will encourage this Muslim/Vatican action on the Feast of Pentecost. Indeed, these actions show the blasphemous nature of the Conciliar "New Pentecost".

From the beginning of the Bergoglio pontificate, we knew it would be a bumpy ride. We knew we were headed for heartbreak and scandal. We knew he was a Vatican II radical who will recklessly drive the Conciliar revolution to even greater romps than his Conciliar predecessors. His actions call for greater resistance on our part, increased fidelity to the perennial teaching and practice of the Church, and a greater need to instill the counter-revolutionary spirit in ourselves and in our young ones.

We do not follow, imitate or respect his inter-religious actions. We pray we may soon be granted a Pope who is not in the poisonous grip of a modernist mindset.

Prayers of reparation are in order. And as the message of Fatima encourages, "Pray a great deal for the Holy Father".[3]

1. De Revelatione, Father Garrigou-Lagrange, [Paris: Galbalda, 1921], Tome 2, Quoted from "Christians, Muslims and Jews: Do we all Have the Same God?”, Father François Knittel, Christendom, November, December, 2007.

2. Cardinal Mercier’s Pastoral Letter 1918, The Lesson of Events. Cited from The Kingship of Christ and Organized Naturalism, Father Denis Fahey, (Dublin: Regina Publications, 1943), p. 36. (Emphasis added)

3. Please note: I did not call Papa Bergoglio an apostate, but of engaging in apostate actions that would be condemned by every Pope for 2000 years from St. Peter to Pius XII. We do not and can not judge the interior state of Francis' soul.

Springfield Reformer:

Well, I will take you at your word that your post is 100% sincere. Thus, you are one of the few here who feel that way.

And for the record, Pope John Paul II did something similar back in 1986 at the Basilica of St. Francis of Assisi [I think it was]. I never accuse Pope John Paul II as being a heretic for doing so [because he wasn’t] although I thought what he did was not a prudent decision. I feel the same way about Pope Francis decision to have this meeting in the Vatican Gardens.

The days of Pope’s being able to rally Christendom [which does not exist any longer] and the Princes, Knights, etc, to defend Christendom are long gone. There are some Traditionalist Catholics that would long for those days again. In the context of the fall of the Roman Empire in the West, the Bishop of Rome did assume some temporal and political leadership, that is true, but as time went on and the rise of the nation state, that was no longer feasible or desirable, although the rise of the nation state did in some fashion contribute to the breakup of Christendom.

With that said, I respect that the Pope wants to work for peace, maybe behind the scenes, he will push for greater respect of the Christian presence in the middle east, which is under attack from militant Islam. I still would rather there not be a prayer of any kind in the Vatican, even in the gardens, other than a Catholic prayer, but I am not the Pope. I still respect the institution of the Papacy and give Francis the respect that is due to him given he is the Bishop of Rome, but I still can respectfully disagree with the prayer aspect of this peace meeting.

piusv:

Well, again, you are taking what I said and fitting it to your agenda. I used the context of Christendom where the Church had the ability to influence secular and political rule. There are some of you guys that still want the Pope to be a secular ruler. Those days are gone.

Now, I agree that Pope Francis is a bit of a loose canon in terms of how he speaks off the cuff. I wish he were more measured in what he says. He at the same time talks about the Devil as the source of evil and the reality of the Devil [and he does it in some in-depth theological language] not the way some other groups talk about that, he supports Mueller and the CDF and its criticism of the LCWF for being basically recycled Gnosticism and at the same time has a prayer meeting in the Vatican Gardens.

But, this is what you get when you have a 2nd half of the 20th century trained Jesuit as Pope. So I guess in some way, not all that surprised that Pope Francis would cause some head scratching. In fairness, John Paul II was a solid pope, in my view, and he did some things that caused me say hmmmmm. Pope Benedict on the other hand, I never really felt I did that. Pope’s come and go, but Christ and the Church and the Faith remain.

You are not thinking broad enough with what the world follows and ‘worships’ at its basic levels..the greco roman latin church is Extremely Influential and not on its so own..

the Greco roman latin pope Gregory calendar is the standard of timekeeping in the entire world.. the ENTIRE industrial work (business, politics, and religious) world is united in the unbiblicla calendar with the namesake of a pope..

Because of that solar only based calendar with the pope namesake, the entire world’s business and politcal world is run by it.. and the religions of the world even use it to find each of their ‘Sabbaths’..

In addition to the sabbaths, because of the greco roman latin pope calendar, the world has its own man made ‘holy days’ that are only found using its calendar, including some man made religious holy days like December 25 and easter...

You underestimate the influence .... but Scripture tells us in Daniel and Revelation that times and laws would change and the whole world would be deceived..

Funny, Jews use part of our Heavenly Father’s timekeeping of the sun and moon (they ignore the stars) for two months out of the year because those two months contain the feasts in Torah..and those days fall on any ‘Gregorian day’ and Jews and christians never wonder about that..-.

Then they go back to the solar based pope gregory calendar for the rest of their time and even have ‘postponements and suspension rules’ for the feasts when those feasts bump into the man made Greco roman Latin calendar day they have chosen for their ‘Sabbath’ instead of what Scripture says!

That is remarkable slavery to a system that is not biblical for people who were entrusted the written oracles and the prophets for them to teach and be separated from the world-
But in choosing the greco roman latin man made calendar premises instead of Torah, they have really been blinded!

The world runs on a counterfeit timekeeping calendar that uses one piece (sun)of the ‘clock’ in the sky He gave us for signs, seasons, etc (sun, moon,stars)

And the latest man made calculated’version ‘ of the counterfeiting is the greco roman latin pope gregory calendar.

Study the origin of the names for those days and months in the gregrorian and you may be shocked, as I was, how many foreign gods, goddesses and creations ‘we worship’ in our daily life...even in ignorance and innocence.

So No, your premise that the church has little influence anymore couldn’t be more wrong- and I certainly reject it as false...

Satan is the greatest counterfeiter- and it looks like he has chosen the greco roman latin pope gregory calendar in our time to counterfeit our Heavenly Father’s timekeeping, sabbaths, new moons and feasts- His Appointed times and set times for worship...
And Satan likes to steal worship..

Example- On the pope’s calendar, today is a sun’s day- and is a holy Sabbath for most of Christendom...

But because of study and His amazing grace, I have learned it is the second Month of His calendar, and it’s a ‘work day’.. the second work day of the week actually. the Sabbath was two days ago on the gregorian Frigg’s day...and it was found and confirmed in the Holy Word..

If you learn His timekeeping and calendar that is actually in Scripture , you too will see this world as it is Counterfeit..and anything that ‘happens’ will be seen from a different premise..

And see the parties like jews, muslims and christians all accepting Satan’s false premises just like the secular humanist, satanists and even atheists accept them...there is so much worship of the calendar that even secular humanists have their ‘holy days’ too! (That doesn’t happen on our Heavenly Father’s calendar)

I promise you the world will start to make perfect sense.

And things like unity of religious faiths for ‘prayer’ will achieve exactly what the god of this world wants.. more counterfeiting of our Heavenly Father’s perfect Will..

There is another way to worship the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His only begotten Son, Joshua, the Messiah of Israel...

But it requires rejecting the counterfeit world that has substitute the greco roman latin calendar for His calendar- that has substituted the greco roman latin appointed and set times, for His appointed and set times....
And by simple logic, has substituted their own greco roman latin messiah for His, the Messiah of Israel- Torah that became flesh.

May all of the world turn to worshipping our Heavenly Father in Spirit and Truth instead of counterfeiting substitutes...

And may those who have been blinded by Satan have their eyes opened by His Spirit to what has been lies and half truths that the world, even the very elect, have accepted as gospel truths and givens in their daily lives and worship life...

I am very happy with the current calendar for it is scientifically accurate. Now, on a theological level, I worship on the Lord’s Day which is Sunday when the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ, True God and true man, eternally begotten of the Father, incarnate of the Most Holy Virgin Mary Mother of God, who suffered, died and was buried, rose from the Dead.

So rather with respect to my thinking vs. yours, you are thinking like a fundamentalist protestant, most likely some type of Adventist or Jehova’s witness, who who most likely doesn’t believe in the Trinity and that Christ is to use the latin term, consubstantial with the Father.

Man made Holidays” those days became tied to Christ because of the Incarnation. He became incarnate at a place and time and he rose from the dead at a place and time. The Catholic Church sees time as sacred because it is a sacramental sign that points to Christ, the Liturgical worship calendar of the Catholic Church [Orthodox would have something similar] is ordered in terms of time with a reference to the person of Jesus Christ.

In summary, you can have your “flat earth” views of the world, I am ok with the Gregorian Calendar.

But there is no way in Hell that this man is Catholic let alone the pope. It is the only thing that makes sense at this point.

So where does that leave us? If we Catholics have been gathered around an empty chair for years, that would indicate that the visible Church has vanished. Where is it hiding? How will we find it again? Who will determine its legitimacy? This isn't consistent with Holy Scripture. God didn't abandon his people when they worshipped the golden calf, so why would he abandon his Church which continues to pray to Him (albeit with stripped and adulterated prayers)? And where is it written that the Church would never have a stupid, faithless, evil or even heretical pope? The Pope is the visible head, but infallible only when speaking ex cathedra. The Holy Spirit protects the Church from formalizing error (e.g. Vatican II, pastoral council only). That Francis is behaving destructively is blindingly obvious to those who rationally examine the facts, but there have been bad popes before, and the Church has survived.

And I get that makes me the black sheep here....whatev.

Why should it? It's not like your posts (and your screen name) haven't already made your opinions clear anyway. :)

BlatherNaut:

Perhaps you should take part in Traditional Catholic forums that discuss some of your certainly valid questions (all of which many other trads are trying to make sense of). They can be answered, but I am not the best person to do it.

I do know that not every Trad believes that Vatican II was “only” pastoral. Considering how Vatican II is the bees knees these days I’m not sure how anyone can believe that it was “just pastoral”. Clearly the hierarchy considers it much more than “just pastoral”. They talk and act as if the Church didn’t exist before it.

In addition, it is inaccurate to say that infallibility only happens when the pope speaks ex cathedra. I see this repeated here so much and it is just not true.

With respect to the visible church, keep in mind that the Church does not lose its visibility when the pope dies and is in a normal period of sedevacante. Church visibility, therefore, does not solely hang its hat on having a “Pope”. Furthermore, I would argue that what is visible these days is not the Catholic Church. It certainly doesn’t look like the Catholic Church to me. Does it look that way to you? Be honest with yourself.

Again, I unfortunately am not the best person to argue these points. I suggest you at least investigate it. Sedevacantism can be reconciled with Catholic principles. It’s not the boogeyman that so many would like to make it out to be.

From Benedict XVI's own mouth:

"The Second Vatican Council has not been treated as a part of the entire living Tradition of the Church, but as an end of Tradition, a new start from zero. The truth is that this particular council defined no dogma at all, and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely pastoral council; and yet many treat it as though it had made itself into a sort of superdogma which takes away the importance of all the rest." - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

In addition, it is inaccurate to say that infallibility only happens when the pope speaks ex cathedra.

True. It is more accurate to say that since the Church is protected from error by the Holy Spirit, neither Francis nor the Magisterium can formally teach error. There is a clear distinction between bad example versus official pronouncements.

Furthermore, I would argue that what is visible these days is not the Catholic Church. It certainly doesn’t look like the Catholic Church to me. Does it look that way to you? Be honest with yourself.

Yes, quite honestly. Bruised, bloodied and beaten up by Modernists, but unquestionably the Bride of Christ.

IMO, the desire of many to blindly defend every questionable word and action of the Pope and the claim that because the Pope has engaged in questionable words and actions that he therefore cannot possibly be the real pope are opposite sides of the same coin. Both points of view are based on the false premise that the pope cannot err, which is obviously not the case, since only God is perfect.

I've read Coomaraswamy (among others) and though much of what he has written is accurate, I disagree with his conclusions.

See, I knew you understated the influence of the mother church.. I gave you solid evidence the entire world runs on it.... and those Protestants you speak of are worship a counterfeit too...

That isn’t a good thing in Daniel or Revelation..

Scripture tells us and hints to the life markers for Joshua, the Messiah of Israel’s ties to His calendar.. and it is a wonderful testimony to His Truth.

The Messiah of Israel was born, not on December 25, but on the new moon of the month when the sun was in Virgo, ( sun clothed her)and the moon was under her feet- the 6th month of His calendar.. it is a constellation in revelation 12 but without studying the stars one may not catch that)

The messiah of Israel was circumcised on the 8th day, according to Torah- which is a Sabbath on His Calendar.the eighth day according to Ezekiel 46:1’s template given by Our Sovereign..

The Messiah was dedicated in the temple after 40 days of purification of his mother, Miriam.. and that dedication occurred on the 10th day of the 7th month, which according to Torah, is the day of atonement- Yom Kippur.

The Messiah then was baptized on his 30th birthday, a new moon day on the first day of His 6th month..
Immediately he spent the 40 days/nights fasting in the wilderness to purify himself, as was done before His dedication in the temple 30 years prior.

The Messiah of Israel was killed on Passover.. and because it wasn’t in evening as Torah commanded, a supernatural darkness was over all the land..

The Messiah of Israel was placed in the tomb and ‘rested’, even in death, on the High Sabbath, the 15th day of the 1st month.. He then raised on the first day of the week, the 16th which is the feast of first fruits ( this year on the Gregorian it was a ‘Frigg’s day- not the sun’s day)

You can choose the counterfeit over what you consider ‘flat earth’..

Just know Torah did actually come in the flesh.. and His appointed times, set times were almost all fulfilled in Yeshua’s first coming..

Knowing His calendar is knowing the Messiah.. but the world certainly has its conterfeit savior and its counterfeit worship.. and you and ypur protestant daughters are welcome to it.. I reject it and have heeded the call to ‘come out of her, my people’...

Sorry about the delay in responding, but I just noticed your post.

To answer your question, I do consider divorce a sin. I am also opposed to anything but natural birth control. However, on that there is no direct Scriptural statement, and the only basis for inference is the prohibition on murder, i.e., any “contraceptive” that kills a conceived human life would still be murder.

As for my fellowship, I have fellowshipped with many Baptistic and Reformed groups over the years and would characterize them all as consistently prolife, but with varying degrees of understanding the implications of various contraceptives technologies.

On divorce, some few of those groups were as strict as you could imagine, forbidding remarriage even if adultery was the basis, understanding the adultery exception as peculiar to a specific debate in Jewish law at the time under the Old Covenant, and thus not relevant to the New Covenant.

Without a strict statistical basis, I would hazard a guess that most of the rest I have known do see it as sin, but take the adultery exception as still valid. Probably the only basis for an annulment would be failure to consummate, as we have no such escape hatch as defect of form, as Catholicism does. But then we don’t see marriage as a sacrament per se, and so have no need to circumvent the “undeletable mark on the soul” alleged to be created by the matrimonial sacrament. The odd side effect of this is that the more conservative Reformed and/or Baptist groups I have known are actually stricter than Catholicism, as annulment for us doesn’t have the flexibility it does in Catholicism.

On the other hand the most pro-abortion folks I know are my Catholic relatives up near Chicago. Not only do they believe in it, they’ve participated in it. They’ve also linked it to their Mariology, as a validation of feminism. A wicked brew, I know, and certainly not representative of all Catholics. But that has been my experience. In any given room, I am the most conservative person on these topics. Except possibly here at FR. :)

Hope that helped.

Peace,

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