So where does that leave us? If we Catholics have been gathered around an empty chair for years, that would indicate that the visible Church has vanished. Where is it hiding? How will we find it again? Who will determine its legitimacy? This isn't consistent with Holy Scripture. God didn't abandon his people when they worshipped the golden calf, so why would he abandon his Church which continues to pray to Him (albeit with stripped and adulterated prayers)? And where is it written that the Church would never have a stupid, faithless, evil or even heretical pope? The Pope is the visible head, but infallible only when speaking ex cathedra. The Holy Spirit protects the Church from formalizing error (e.g. Vatican II, pastoral council only). That Francis is behaving destructively is blindingly obvious to those who rationally examine the facts, but there have been bad popes before, and the Church has survived.
And I get that makes me the black sheep here....whatev.
Why should it? It's not like your posts (and your screen name) haven't already made your opinions clear anyway. :)
BlatherNaut:
Perhaps you should take part in Traditional Catholic forums that discuss some of your certainly valid questions (all of which many other trads are trying to make sense of). They can be answered, but I am not the best person to do it.
I do know that not every Trad believes that Vatican II was “only” pastoral. Considering how Vatican II is the bees knees these days I’m not sure how anyone can believe that it was “just pastoral”. Clearly the hierarchy considers it much more than “just pastoral”. They talk and act as if the Church didn’t exist before it.
In addition, it is inaccurate to say that infallibility only happens when the pope speaks ex cathedra. I see this repeated here so much and it is just not true.
With respect to the visible church, keep in mind that the Church does not lose its visibility when the pope dies and is in a normal period of sedevacante. Church visibility, therefore, does not solely hang its hat on having a “Pope”. Furthermore, I would argue that what is visible these days is not the Catholic Church. It certainly doesn’t look like the Catholic Church to me. Does it look that way to you? Be honest with yourself.
Again, I unfortunately am not the best person to argue these points. I suggest you at least investigate it. Sedevacantism can be reconciled with Catholic principles. It’s not the boogeyman that so many would like to make it out to be.