Posted on 05/31/2014 3:30:55 PM PDT by boatbums
The Wizard of Oz has fascinated adults and children for many years. You know the story: a farm girl from Kansas finds herself in the middle of an unwelcomed adventure in an attempt to find the fanciful wizard, who, she hopes, will help her return home. After many trials and tribulations, she, along with her newfound friends, ultimately arrives at the Emerald City only to discover, much to her chagrin, that the "wizard" was really no wizard at all. He wasn't much of anything. In modern parlance, he was a wimp.
Believe it or not, many-a-Protestant claims to have experienced a disenchantment similar to that of Dorothy. And like the disenchanted Dorothy who just wanted to go home, so too these disenchanted Protestants want to go home. The home these Protestants long for, however, is not the home they left behind. These Protestants are Romeward bound.
True, the number of Protestant converts to Catholicism is less than the other way around. And there are less actual converts to Rome today than during previous points in the history of Catholicism. Nevertheless, there is something unique about this modern conversion phenomenon, since "the kind of converts appears to be quite different, with fewer obligatory conversions for such reasons as marriage. A significant number of Protestant evangelicals...are among those moving to Rome...."
Many evangelical Protestants are converting to "Roman obedience." Or, in the words of one such convert, they are "getting churched" or "poping." Jocularity aside, it is important for Protestants to come to grips with the reasons why these Neocatholics have set their compasses toward Rome, only then will Protestants be able to see some of the shortcomings of their espoused faith. Only then will they be able to meet the needs of those who are "taking the plunge."
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
That seems to be the general response...
Except that the practices of the Catholic Church became more medieval after the Great Schism, while those of the Orthodox generally did not change, thereby going further back to the "original." Also, the doctrinal differences between RC and Orthodox are few, but what there are, I think the Orthodox view is more likely to be correct--to be fair, none of the differences are game-changers, which is why I wouldn't get into any discussions over them at this point.
‘Is it being saved by Grace that is the gift of God, or is it faith that is the gift of God?’
In Greek, the text is clearer. ‘That’ is neutral in gender, whereas ‘faith’ is feminine. There is a feminine form of ‘that’ which would have been used if ‘faith’ was the subject of the relative pronoun ‘that’.
In context, it is clear that salvation is the gift. Below is a link that explains, via the larger context coupled with the specifics of Greek grammar, exactly why ‘salvation’, not ‘faith’ is the ‘gift’. I hope you find the link helpful.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1246
You could do a whole lot worse.. :)
Nope. The original Christians were the 7th Street Reformed Pentecostal Apostolic Baptist Episcopal Full Gospel Fellowship Church of Houston, Inc. It was an invisible underground church until it came out in 1994.
And they had the original King James Bible as well, at least, that is what I have been told.
There are daily Mass Catholics and then there are lazy people. Ever seen a church occupied by a couple score of 80-somethings on a WEEKDAY when there was prit’ near a foot of snow on the ground, wind howling, and more white stuff coming down? I’d bet the ranch it’s a Catholic Church if you have. Rock on Holy Eucharist, rock on....
No more so than Luther or Calvin. A personal conversion story for someone who is already a professed Christian is going to have to include a fair amount of “I” and “me” statements. How else could it be written?
It need not be written.
We know next to nothing of Calvin's conversion. He did not write about it.
You make a much too simplistic argument to rationalize why there ARE more Roman Catholics converting to the Evangelical Protestant side that the reverse. History is replete with examples of this. This very site is replete with them. Those who care enough about their faith to participate on these Religion Forum threads - that far too often, sadly, become sectarian wars - are not ashamed to explain why this conversion was necessary AND valid in our lives.
There is much hypocrisy by Catholics who gleefully celebrate "Protestants" converting to Catholicism but then denigrate any Catholic who goes the other way. It only further confirms some Catholics inability to face reality. To explain away genuine conversion as, "either breaking a vow or are lay people who seem terribly catechized in the Catholic faith", fails to take into account the millions who HAVE left for reasons not at all relegated to those narrow few explanations. Each and every soul is precious to our Lord Jesus Christ and I KNOW He is far more concerned with the condition of ones heart than with what label they identify.
I imagine there will be - at least I hope there will - many surprised Catholics who not only find themselves immediately at the foot of the throne of Christ in heaven when they die but joined by the millions of NON-Catholic believers there with them rejoicing in the God of our salvation.
Not impressed. At all.
I’ll take a stab at it. (Protestants becoming Catholics)
Maybe they have failed to refrain from sin and hope that a more structured faith, or “religion” would be a better fit.
They can sin all they want and get absolved by an unseen priest instead of an all knowing God.
The Holy Spirit just wasn’t in them, so a “religion” less concerned about salvation and more concerned about rules, pomp, and circumstance, was more attractive to them.
I wish it weren’t. It doesn’t have to be. Shouldn’t people be able to respectfully discuss why they believe what they do?
The Orthodox split with Rome close to a thousand years ago over several novelties that are troublesome to this day, for them and for Protestants as well. So, if it's liturgical grandeur with authentic antiquity they're after, that would be a far better fit. And, more true to the primitive church.
“It need not be written.”
He thought otherwise - and his opinion matters more than yours.
“We know next to nothing of Calvin’s conversion. He did not write about it.”
It doesn’t matter what he wrote about.
Perhaps. But the church I attend IS culturally conservative as well. We should make sure the fellowship/worship groups we join agree with our world view. There are many Evangelical churches out there that are theologically and culturally conservative and who adhere to traditional Christian Biblical statements of faith.
“You make a much too simplistic argument to rationalize why there ARE more Roman Catholics converting to the Evangelical Protestant side that the reverse.”
I made no such argument at all. Can Protestants actually read? I made no argument about “ why there ARE more Roman Catholics converting to the Evangelical Protestant side that the reverse.”
Can you tell the difference between a comment about “few “notable” Catholics” and “why there ARE more Roman Catholics converting to the Evangelical Protestant side that the reverse”? Can you?
And do you know WHY they did?
I've asked the RM to fix the link.
Thanks for the admission.
OTOH, JESUS is very attractive. And HE doesn't beat one up. He draws and leads and guides, in gentleness. His yoke is easy and His burden light.
He came to set us free, not drag us into bondage but beating us into submission.
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