Evangelical Leader Returns To Catholicism

http://www.washingtonpost.com ^ | May 12, 2007 | Alan Cooperman

[NKP_Vet]

The president of the Evangelical Theological Society, an association of 4,300 Protestant theologians, resigned this month because he has joined the Roman Catholic Church.

The May 5 announcement by Francis J. Beckwith, a tenured associate professor at Baptist-affiliated Baylor University in Waco, Tex., has left colleagues gasping for breath and commentators grasping for analogies.

One blogger likened it to Hulk Hogan's defection from the World Wrestling Federation to the rival World Championship Wrestling league.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

” And if they are there why are the majority of the new Christians of the Catholic faith and not protestant. Inquiring minds want to know.”

I didn’t see this confirmed in your link...

[NKP_Vet]

Then you can’t read.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Then you can’t read.”

Oh, I can and did read every word.

YOUR specific claim was completely unsupported. If you believe differently, post the quote that supports it.

If not, your posts are all bluster - as they usually are.

where’s the beef??

[daniel1212]

In my experience the wisest, most serious-minded, most probing, most searching Christians end up converting from Protestantism to Catholicism, not the other way around.

Well of course not, as their conversion means they were the most serious-minded, most probing, most searching souls, just as in your opinion no “devout” Catholic would give up their faith, you never see threads of Catholics initiating an argument with protestants on FR.

Thus no convert to evangelical faith could ever have come from being a devout probing, searching Catholic, though i was, and articles saying Prots need to convert to Catholicism could be never be initiating an argument with protestants on FR.

Meanwhile as said, having "not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble" (1 Corinthians 1:26) converts is consistent with the kingdom of God, and your scholarship abounds with liberals, those searching intellectuals who do covert best fit those who rejected light and were delivered into deception.

While you boast of such being true searchers of Truth, the fact is that such believe in a church that encourages not examination of evidence in order to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching, but calls for implicit assent of faith, and of mind and will.

For indeed the church they have submitted to requires this, as it is invisible in Scripture, being a church that had,

the churches being presided over by a pope the whole church looked to as it supreme infallible head in Rome, and being taught that he was the "rock" of Mt. 16:18

Or even a successor for the martyred apostle James (Acts 12:1,2) being chosen like Matthias was and after that manner (Acts 1, in order to keep the original number of apostles)

And a separate sacerdotal class of believers titled "priests ," as they uniquely changed bread into human flesh and dispensing it to the masses to receive life in them and eternal life (RCs keep quoting Jn. 6:53,54 to us)

And a hierarchical order of priests, bishops, Cardinals, etc., with ostentatious religious dress and titles, including "Most Reverend"

And required (with rare exceptions) clerical celibacy, which presumes all such have that gift.

And incognizant (usually) souls being formally justified by interior holiness via sprinkling of water in recognition of proxy faith, and (usually) ending up becoming good enough to enter Heaven in purgatory

And a separate class of believers called “saints,

And praying to the departed, or angels, and before images

And the apostles teaching Mary was born and kept sinless

And a church that conformed to this world in using papal sanctioned physical oppression torture, burning and death to deal with theological dissent

Or who, having lost that power, treats even notorious manifestly impenitent public sinners as members in life and in death, in contrast to the NT means of disfellowship and spiritual discipline.

And which members overall come in near last in things such as evangelism, commitment, and personal Bible reading, the latter which it hindered for a long time, and later sanctions teaching millions such things as that OT miraculous stories are fables or folktales, etc.

And teaches that the deity Muslims worship (not as unknown) is the same as theirs.

And which boasts of unity while being discouraged from objectively searching the Scriptures in order to ascertain the veracity of RC doctrine, while (on the other hand) lacking certainty about all the things they must hold as certain, and seeing varying degrees of interpretation by the magisterium, as well in the great liberty they have to interpret Scripture in order to support Rome.

This will suffice for now, and while i do not see any body of apostles today, esp in Catholicism, with the degree of power, purity, piety and performance like that of the early church, and that could effectually function as a universal magisterium, (which Rome is not even a form of), and the church overall as in negative contrast with the early church, yet among churches that hold Scripture as supreme as the wholly inspired and basically literal word of God,

i see men ordained according to the Biblical requirements, (1Tim. 3:1-7)

with with simple titles of pastor as elders/bishops, that being one office, (Titus 1:5-7)

and clothed with humility as well the clothes of common men, (Mt. 23:5-12)

and taking part in the communal Lord's supper as the memorial that it is, showing the Lord's death till He comes, (1Cor. 11 ) and praying not to the departed or images,

and preaching the gospel of repentant faith in the Lord Jesus to save contrite damned + destitute sinners on His expense and credit, (Eph. 2:8,9) that being counted for righteousness, (Rm. 3 - 4:7ff)

which heart faith confesses the Lord Jesus, (Rm. 10:9,10) justifying them as souls having saving faith, (Heb. 6:9,10). and thus baptizing them as believers who can fulfill the stated requirements of repentance and wholehearted faith, (Acts 2:38; 8:36,37)

and thus overall on the practical level they foster the most unified and committed group of born again believers in core Christian truths,

realizing a basic unity of the Spirit as a result of a common personal conversion of heart faith in Christ, and resultant Scripture-based relationship with Him, which transcends external tribalism,

thus being treated by both Rome and liberals alike as their greatest threat to their rule.

But who, as predicted in the latter days, have been and increasingly are a remnant. To God be the glory.

[daniel1212]

Marilyn in the above story was a former Franciscan nun and a certified Catholic youth director for the Diocese of Galveston-Houston.

That's impossible according to RCs who deny a real RC could ever convert (no true Scotsman fallacy).

in the midst of the confusion, many have departed from classical understandings like those expounded by Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas and have turned instead to a concept of faith as mere inner conviction or belief for the sake of belief.

Buy when i esquire about the presuppositions behind their assertions of faith i am avoided or told i am dealing with too many presuppositions and confusing them. Maybe the implicit faith part is easier.

[Salvation]

From that author with a hotlink to Catholic Answers: **Catholics can no longer afford to simply be knowledgable about what they believe—they must be trained and convinced experts. If you want to save souls from drifting helplessly along in the uncertain winds of this world, then you have got to start preparing yourself immediately. The soul you save may be your own. If you’re looking for a good place to start, try Catholic Answers. When the Mormons, or whoever else, come knocking at your door, you’ll be ready to explain the truth in charity. And who knows? You may even win a few converts to the Catholic Church.

[boatbums]

Can you show us in any way, shape, or form that it not be TRUE? (setting her own expression of humor aside, of course).

Well if you consider being united in Christ in His Church as some sort of Ray Kurtzweil-inspired hive mind/singularity/transhumanistic experience then I suppose your understanding is not wrong. Of course I'd then have to ask what are you doing over here on the RF. But have fun with it. That's why protestantism ultimately fails. It relies too much on secular philosophical understanding. You think The Trinity is as conflicted as you are about the matter?

Oh the irony! You contend it is Protestantism which "relies too much on secular philosophical understanding"? Look back on some of the "fathers'" use of Socrates and Plato to develop the dogmas of transubstantiation and others. You complain because I related Blue Dragon's reference to a TV show - which more than likely DID occur to Kurtzwell - as an example of Rome's global dominance plans? Show me how that doesn't describe what the Vatican has expressed time after time through its encyclicals, bulls, catechisms and councils.

How else do you explain the proclamations that assert:

the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation

Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

“Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff..”

There are other, almost countless, proofs drawn from the most trustworthy witnesses which clearly and openly testify with great faith, exactitude, respect and obedience that all who want to belong to the true and only Church of Christ must honor and obey this Apostolic See and Roman Pontiff.

There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church.

The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels".

Sacred Scripture informs us that the exclusivity of Christ's church is one of a spiritual building of which each and every believer is a living stone that makes up this holy body of Christ. For a man-made organization - and that DOES describe what Roman Catholicism is - to assert IT is the sole way to Christ and eternal salvation, defies what Almighty God has revealed to His people from the start. Jesus is the door - not the Roman Catholic Church. The Apostles and their disciples NEVER preached a sola ecclesia formula for salvation, but that upon receiving Jesus Christ, believing on Him, a soul is added to Christ's body and is joined to the Bride of Christ. Christ's Bride is ALL believers, across nations, peoples, races and languages:

Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. (I Cor. 12:12-27)

We will have all eternity to rejoice in the love of Christ.

[boatbums]

I'll bet if these Mexicans stayed Roman Catholic, there'd be no problemo! ;o)

[Salvation]

[Salvation]

[Elsie]

Nope. And that's scriptural. Check it out.

Poor ol' Joe.

It's no wonder he divorced her!

[Elsie]

Nope. And that's scriptural. Check it out.

HMMMmmm...

https://www.google.com/search?q=mary+sex+after+jesus'+birth&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS475

[Elsie]

And we must remain in Him and keep His commands, or be "thrown into the fire and burned."

1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

[Elsie]

God spoke to Peter.

Yup: "Get thee behind me; Satan."

Galatians 2:11
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was ... came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly wrong.

Nice guy you've got their for your 'first' pope...

[Elsie]

In my experience the wisest, most serious-minded, most probing, most searching Christians end up converting from Protestantism to Catholicism, not the other way around.

I can understand this.

[Elsie]

Converts from Catholicism to Protestantism, on the other hand, typically never loved the Catholic faith and were very poorly catechized.

Rome had better start producing some teachers that CAN catechize one of these days!

[Elsie]

The Bible says if you don’t work you don’t eat. That includes blacks or anyone else.

Cliven?

Is that YOU??

"And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy?"

[Elsie]

Protestants don’t get “catechized”.

Apparently; LOTS of Catholics get it very poorly...

[Elsie]

Ok. First prove your claims and then we can talk. What proof do you have??

He needs no proof, silly: he's Catholic, and by GOD! they are NEVER wrong.

Well; except for a few minor peccadilloes by a few popes or so...

[Elsie]

...the amount of things one must assent to in matters of Faith and Morals is quite small.

Got a list?

I'll bet lurkers would like to peruse it.