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To: Mr Rogers; metmom; Elsie; Gamecock; .45 Long Colt
The Greek makes it obvious that the word "that" in the English translation refers to salvation, not faith.

The Greek makes no such thing clear, and the meaning must be derived from the context:

"In this verse, to what does the word "that" refer to? Adam Clarke, Wesley & company say that it is neuter plural and "Faith" is feminine hence it cannot refer to faith, (Such an admission would destroy their theological system.) However "Grace" is also feminine as is "Salvation"... The problem is that there is NO precise referent. Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely. However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are "nor of yourselves," and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe (i.e. the normal Calvinistic position)." (From John Gill's Commentary on Eph 2:8).

147 posted on 05/10/2014 4:43:36 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

No Catholics have come out and said all those QUOTES I posted were BOGUS, yet; have they?


148 posted on 05/10/2014 4:48:50 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; metmom; Elsie; Gamecock; .45 Long Colt
"That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered “that” - τοῦτο touto- is in the neuter gender, and the word “faith” - πίστις pistis- is in the feminine. The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to “the salvation by grace” of which he had been speaking."

John Gill & you are both wrong.

"so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

"The thing to note here is that the "that" that so many think refers to faith cannot because it is a neuter pronoun that refers back to the neuter noun "riches" and to that noun's apposition "gift," also singular neuter. It doesn't refer to "faith" because, if it did, it would have been feminine in gender."

Sorry. If Paul wanted it to refer to faith, he could have made it so. He did not. It is no use pretending otherwise. Not for Gill, and not for you.

149 posted on 05/10/2014 6:12:21 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I sooooo miss America!)
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