Who owns the name “Mormon”?

religionnews.com ^ | Apr 24, 2014 | Jana Riess

[Gamecock]

A fledgling Mormon dating site reports that IRI, the intellectual property rights arm of the LDS Church, is attempting to shutter the planned launch of Mormon Match because of its use of the word “Mormon” and its appropriation of an image of the Salt Lake Temple.

Here’s what the front page of the site-in-progress looks like now:

For a good discussion of the issues involved, see Holly Welker’s post in Religion Dispatches. (I don’t think RD’s headline is quite accurate, though; as far as I know, the Church has not filed a lawsuit but applied pressure and commenced an “opposition proceeding.” According to Courthousenews.com, the lawsuit in question was filed by one of the dating site’s co-founders in response to that pressure, which would make the Church’s intellectual property division the defendant, not the plaintiff, in the suit.)

At any rate, the question at issue is this: Who, if anyone, owns the rights to the word “Mormon”?

And secondarily, what would be the consequences if a judge determined that only the LDS Church had the right to use the word “Mormon” for commercial purposes?

For an illustrative snapshot, here are some ways the word “Mormon” intersects with my daily life.

• For Primary Sharing Time lessons and ideas, I head over to Mormon Mommy Blogs, which often has great resources.
• I have proudly served on the board of directors for a periodical called Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought.
• I have appeared as a guest on podcasts called “Mormon Matters,” “Mormon Expression,” “Mormon Stories,” and “Feminist Mormon Housewives.”
• If I want a solid orthodox perspective on a theological or historical issue, I consult FAIRMormon.
• To find out what is going on in the Mormon culture scene, I check out mormonartist.net or the Association of Mormon Letters website.
• And for all-around awesomeness, I love the blog Modern Mormon Men.

And that’s just a sampling. As you can see from this short list, liberals use the word Mormon — liberally. Conservatives use the word Mormon — also liberally.

Not one of the websites or organizations above is officially affiliated with the LDS Church, which also uses the word “Mormon” at will — the Mormon Newsroom, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, the Mormon Times, etc.

But surely the official LDS Church and its various arms are not the only groups that can lay claim to the moniker. “Mormon” is how we Mormons find each other. It’s probably how you found this blog post.

Many of the independent Mormon websites and periodicals sell products or advertising, making them commercial enterprises. When I go to the Mormon Mommy Blogs site, for example, I wade through ads for scrapbook tools and missionary gifts.

So, yes, someone over there is profiting, at least a little, from the word “Mormon.” But without that word, I might never have discovered the site in the first place. My poor Primary kids would be at the mercy of my own stunted imagination, and then I’d teach horrible lessons, and then I’d have to explain to all the parents why a whole crew of six-year-olds left the Church.

You see where I am going with this argument. Where would the Church draw the line to prohibit individuals and businesses from using the word “Mormon”?

This interference with the Mormon dating site already seems like a heavy-handed and provincial action for a denomination that aspires to be a global religion.

It seems perfectly fair to me for the Church to request, as it has done repeatedly, to be called by the name it chooses for itself: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, thank you very much. There is no such thing as “the Mormon Church,” at least in official usage. Fair enough.

What does not seem fair is to limit the use of the term “Mormon” to only those appropriations the Church formally approves of, which this statement suggests might be the Church’s ultimate goal:

“We believe we are well within our rights to protect both the use of the name of the church and the image of the Salt Lake temple and to make clear that the plaintiff’s business has no connection whatsoever to the church,” attorney Robert Schick told the Houston Chronicle.

By all means, protect the name of the Church. But as the Church has taken great pains to point out again and again, “Mormon” is not the name of the church.

In fact, two websites you would think might raise the hackles of the Church’s legal department — LDSSingles.com and LDSmatch.com — have not been “singled” out even though their names do approximate the official name of the Church.

Such a lack of clarity is enough to drive a Mormon — er, Latter-day Saint — er, Mormon — to drink.

[Elsie]

Does Mormon dating include threesomes?

Well...

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What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?

 

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"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982

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"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

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"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65

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"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196

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"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.

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"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965

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"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155

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"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.

[Elsie]

Does Mormon dating include threesomes?

HMMMmmm...

[Elsie]

In what language?

Reformed Egyptian??

[Elsie]

Of course you’re right, I’m just thinking that the Church of LDS Inc. has the legal horsepower to sue the pants off anyone who “misuses” the term Mormon, especially if the target’s located in Utah or the intermountain corridor.

There is 'suing' and then there is 'winning'.

[Elsie]

... LDS Inc. has the legal horsepower to sue...

Where's ol' Porter when he's needed these days?

[Elsie]

Is 'mon' Reformed Egyptian for 'good,' as the article says?

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The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim...

only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

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Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

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*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

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Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Utah Binger]

A "good" Mormon rancher.

More Here

[Elsie]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (acting through Intellectual Reserve, Inc.) applied for a trademark on "Mormon" in 2002.

Took 'em a while...

[Elsie]

Only if they are a lesbian throuple!

http://affirmation.org/who-we-are/

[Elsie]

This has me wondering if there’s a Machiavellian FReeper out there who can figure a way of provoking the Mormons and the Scientologists to sue each other into oblivion?

You've come to the right place; my dear...

[Elsie]

I find myself using the term "Mormon" to refer to fundamentalist offshoots of the COJCOLDS.

NOW you're in trouble!!!

[Elsie]

We will match your personality and interests with each of your "sister wives" & your future mother-in-laws!

[Elsie]

Man Alone.

It's called... Reformed Egyptian here.

We gave it to them 4000 years ago.

[Elsie]

“The Book of More Good”????

“Good is like God, but with an extra O. So it’s being like God, plus some more.”

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1004258,1004268,quote=1

[Elsie]

in what known language of 1830 does that come from ???

It seems we must go back to the source...

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While walking thru the woods one day ---

"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

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"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

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"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

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In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

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"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

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In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

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Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

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"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

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[Elsie]

it was Joey Smith who stood at the gate and “stamped the passport” as Brigham Young described it..

YEs; we DO have some evidence for this; too...

What Joseph Smith Means to Us  (From: various sources )

 

 

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

You got my attention; but #1,2 or 4 would have done the same much better!

[Elsie]

...or is it more gooder???

[Utah Binger]

That guy came to the Freeper picnic and shootout two years ago.

[Elsie]

The fellow in the painting or the painter?